Yet another problem with my Hydro-Temp unit

Discussion in 'Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by ilikegeo, Aug 28, 2012.

  1. ilikegeo

    ilikegeo New Member

    Geo Pictures

    I figured out how to post these.
    The DHW out line filter was clogged.[​IMG]
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  2. ilikegeo

    ilikegeo New Member

    two more
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  3. ChrisJ

    ChrisJ Active Member Forum Leader

    Thanks for the picures!

    I have an iron problem in my well also, first tried a sediment filter, big blue 20" string filter, didn't help. Ended up getting an iron filter that backwashes every night and a chemical feeder pump that adds a solution of water and soda ash to raise the PH of the water, filter needs 7.5- 8.5 PH. Well guy said I could have just used a water softener system which would have been less money.

    My radiant floor system uses an electric water heater(unpowered) as the buffer tank, yours looks to be a purpose built tank. Thanks again for the pics.

    Chris
     

    Attached Files:

  4. ilikegeo

    ilikegeo New Member

    One more pic and clarification

    The "filter screen" I was referring to in my non-technical jargon is called, I have now learned, a "Y strainer filter" and is actually located on the DHW in line. I have attached a photo. I have a plumber coming today to make recommendations about iron filters or anything else to control sediment plugging the filter. Chris, would you recommend your iron filter?


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  5. ChrisJ

    ChrisJ Active Member Forum Leader

    For the most part yes. I also had a little bit of a rotten egg smell, which was gone after the iron filter went in. I purchased the system on-line, I had to assemble it. After a year and a half it needs some cleaning out of the backwash head, I am getting a water hammer in the middle of the 1/2 hour backwash cycle.

    I think if I didn't have the smell I would have just gone the water softener route, using iron removing salt.

    Chris
     
  6. Bill_W

    Bill_W New Member

    Chris,
    I am about to build a house and have done quite a bit of research myself, but I came to the same conclusion you did earlier... that Hydro-temp has the "perfect unit" for my needs.
    What is it that you know now that you didn't know then, that would have caused you to go a different route?
    BTW, I plan to get their latest variable speed single compressor, not a dual-stage version.
     
  7. ChrisJ

    ChrisJ Active Member Forum Leader

    1st of all, Do you have an installer that knows these units? And knows good radiant and DHW (domestic hot water) plumbing when using heat pumps?

    2nd thing is warranty, they only gave 1 year and 5 on compressors. Maybe they have come up to the Energy star standards which I believe is 2 years and 5 years on all refrigerant circuit components. You can get 10 years on Waterfurnace, Climatemaster and Hydron Module .

    The way the unit operates during cooling, as I described earlier in this thread, is shutting off the ground loop and circulating the DHW. What I noticed was the Leaving Air Temp (LAT) was around 55*-58*F, not as cold as it is when running the ground loop, so it didn't remove as much humidity.

    I used to get a lofting of warm humid air through the air ducts in the summer. I think it was due to poor insulation between the lower compressor area on the unit and the upper fan & air coil area.

    "I plan to get their latest variable speed single compressor, not a dual-stage version"

    Their other version is Dual Compressors not dual-stage, for 3 stages of compressor operation. I have not heard anything about their variable compressor, I thought I read it is made from a reciprocating compressor not a scroll compressor like the Waterfurnace 7 series.

    Climate Master has a unit that does DHW on demand. Not sure if your doing radiant also.

    I have had trouble with both the Radiant heat exchanger and the DHW heat exchanger, replaced the radiant one but have bypassed the DHW one and am using a heat pump hot water heater (GE Geospring). Still have a refrigerant leak they can't find. Most likely I will be replacing unit with a Waterfurnace Synergy 3D.

    If I could have afforded to I would be getting a 7 Series and a separate water to water unit running on the same loopfield with a variable speed pump.

    Chris
     
  8. Mark Custis

    Mark Custis Not soon. Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Chris:

    I'll ship you the equipment. I would send water to water and a chilled water coil.

    I find multi-purpose stuff tends not to do any purpose well.

    Mark
     
  9. BMGEO

    BMGEO New Member

     
  10. BMGEO

    BMGEO New Member

    Sorry to hear you are having so many problems with your unit, I was just checking out Hydro temp, to see about installing them for my customers, but it looks like they have some issues. But it seems that all equipment has some kind of problems now days, and I say this after being in the industry for 20 years, I have installed, climate master, Century, hydron, bosch, Florida heatpump, at the moment Bosch seems to be winning as far as call backs or problems, breakdowns,. I have found that drilling and grouting are two of the main parts to make this work correctly. Thermal Transfer is a must in your loop field, I actually bought a drilling rig, took my test and started drilling my own wells, and got a new grout trailer that way I know pea gravel is not being dumped down my wells, it berathem gold 1 to 4 white silica sand to 15 gals. Of water , giving you a transfer rate of. 89 so when I drill a full 300 ft. well I get approximately 1.66 tons of transfer from each well, with 1 inch loops,, the number of wells you have 8 at 180 ft should be enough for 6 tons if properly grouted. As for your DWH in summer it should only help your system to unload heat from your freon, what your unit is doing is transferring heat molecules from inside your house to out side, with ground source it goes to the ground, or can be used to heat your water, DWH, I believe on most units the freon passes through desuperheater on its way to water coil, to remove any left over heat molecules, 120 gals seems like a lot to me, I set two tanks a 50 that's wired and a slave tank, usually a 50 I wire it up but turn it off after peek heating season, and turn on DWH, that way you are only heating 50 gals. But depending on how you pipe it you get the best efficiency that way you have 50 gals. At 120° waiting to go into the wired tank most heating elements are set at 120 degrees so they don't come on a till you us about70 two 80 gals. The DWH should only tax your system in winter when trying to heat your place, compressor issues are a pain because it could be a number of things from electrical spikes to drops, be sure to have a electrician check your box, you could have loose wires, especially if you have aluminium wire it shrinks after it gets hot, check both legs of power to ground, then across both legs for voltage, I've had to call power company to come turn up one leg at transformer, also loss of ground, example one leg, 119,other was at 97 or 102,ask tech what caused failure leg to ground, open winding, have him omh out terminals in front of you, make sure he changes filter dryer in unit, and uses nitrogen while he is welding new components in unit, find out what kind of pump system you have pressurized or non pressurized, each pump should pump 12 gals per min. For your 6 ton you should have at least two pumps, if you can get some info you can figure out your BTU'S that it is putting out water temp out minus water temp in =TD x gals per min. X 500 {water} 465 w/15% methanol =BTU'S per hour, make sure pumps are landed on water pump terminals, or it comes on and off with unit, know since paying 30 plus dollars a month for 24 hour pump action if you don't need it. Sorry to be so long winded also need to check ductwork to see if it is sufficient to move 6 tons in and out of unit, do a static pressure test to see if you are starving for return air or not enough saturated air flow, these things matter! Very interested in hearing back.
     
  11. ChrisJ

    ChrisJ Active Member Forum Leader

    As I have said before I am just a homeowner, but I have learned a lot, here and by owning a HT heat pump.

    Our Hydro-Temp units don't have traditional desuperheaters, they are on-demand DHW makers. So in cooling mode the "unloading" of heat is put into the DHW storage tank by actually circulating DHW only, no ground loop pumping, until the high temp limit on the DHW is met.

    The OP (original poster) had, I believe, a bad iron problem in his household water. The y-strainer kept getting clogged and starving the compessors of the needed flow through the load loop (DHW) heat exchanger.

    Wasn't really sure I should have responded to this 3 year old thread, but thought that telling how different these machines work compared to the other brands was worth telling again.

    ChrisJ
     
  12. Alex Peterson

    Alex Peterson New Member

    Hello. I understand this thread is 3 years old but if you still need advice with your hydro-temp unit, please message me. My company has been responsible for the repair of many of these units and loopfields. Yes there are some design flaws but in nearly every installation of these units, the installing contractor has made fatal installation flaws as well. Two that I can clearly see right away is the use of insufficient pipe size with hot water and radiant piping as well as insufficient radiant heat tank size. An appropriate buffer tank needs to be used for both hot water and radiant, hot water heaters are not acceptable as the ports are not designed to be used to flow 3GPM per ton of heat pump. My guess is that the unit is short cycling to death. They also commonly have problems with the start controls, particularly the potential relays becoming charred and sticking open or closed. Another consideration is loop field flow. These units are very sensitive to insufficient loop-field flow as well. If they installed a non-pressurized QT flow center you should have the flow rate checked with a flow meter. To top it off, when the compressor fails it is VERY difficult to get all the soot flushed out due to the complexity of the refrigerant piping. The tandem compressor will be damaged if the burnout soot makes its way into the main bearings and you will hear it begin to rattle while running. They are wonderful and reliable units if they are installed properly (as are most appliances). The size and complexity of them will throw a wrench into most contractors' installation as things like flow and tank size can begin to add up quickly with larger units.
     
  13. ChrisJ

    ChrisJ Active Member Forum Leader

    The Manufacturer told us to use an electric hot water heater for the buffer tanks.

    ChrisJ
     
  14. Alex Peterson

    Alex Peterson New Member

    When I spoke with them earlier this year the lead engineer Henry had indicated they had problems with flow through the water heaters. From a physics standpoint you're squeezing 18 gpm through a 3/4 boiler drain and a threaded element port. And on the 8 ton it's 24gpm. On several occasions simply upgrading the piping and tank has solved the dhw issues.
     
  15. ChrisJ

    ChrisJ Active Member Forum Leader

    Their plumbing diagrams also had the radiant return pipe T ing into the load loop pipe before it went into the cold water inlet. All that water was supposed to go into a 3/4" hole and down the dip tube.

    I believe the OP's problem was the Y strainer getting clogged. The way the units circulate DHW instead of the ground loop during cooling seems like it would be very tough on the compressors.

    ChrisJ
     

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