Ohio Yet another fix or replace question

Discussion in 'Quotes and Proposals' started by Frank Simon, Apr 28, 2016.

  1. Frank Simon

    Frank Simon New Member

    Hi,
    I have 15 year old WF unit that developed an air coil leak around 6 years ago ( I had 5yr warranty). I found the leak with soap water and thought I would fix epoxy puddy with rubber hose and hose clamp. Actually I would lose about 1 lb Freon a year so I just paid for recharge R22. It never discharged and always had positive pressure until last charge I let a guy put the fix a flat in it. 2 weeks later air coil blew bad total discharge. I wonder now do I fix for $2k or replace would like opinions. I guess I worry about compressor at 15 years.
     
  2. Mark Custis

    Mark Custis Not soon. Industry Professional Forum Leader

    I would replace the machine. Unless our do nothing congress does something we will run out of tax credit at the end of 2016. A new machine comes with a longer warranty and the latest and greatest motors and controls. I would think about pumps and recharging the loops.

    I would be happy to take a look.

    Mark
     
  3. Frank Simon

    Frank Simon New Member

    Thanks but I know the failure I am curious opinions on whether I should trust the Compressor for 10 more years or not with replaced air coil. $2K repair vs $12k replace. If I replace I am going with GeoComfort I believe just because of the aluminum air coil and longer warranty. The WF equivalent is Series 3 with non variable ECM. and I don't trust their air coil anymore.
     
  4. Mark Custis

    Mark Custis Not soon. Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Frank:

    I had no intention of trying to repair the unit. At your machines age the next weakest link in the chain will go. I was offering to look at replacement.

    The repair price seems fair if it includes a new coil, but the push pull price seems high.

    What size is the unit? Electric heaters? Dose that price include pumps and a re-purge?

    Mark
     
  5. arkie6

    arkie6 Member Forum Leader

    What size unit do you have? $12K seems high to just replace the unit with everything else already in place.
     
  6. Frank Simon

    Frank Simon New Member

    Mark,
    I agree next weakest. Was thinking maybe replace compressor while doing air coil even though still working. Close $4k. I have WF P046 with heaters and waterheater reclaim that doesn't work but don't really care.


    quote 1

    Water Furnace Series 3

    ECM 5 speed, 2 stage compressor, 5 yr part and labor

    Water Furnace Series 5

    ECM variable, 2 stage compressor, 10 yr part and labor

    (Ashland total price with flush)


    $10,484 Series 3 without New Flow center

    $11,609 Series 3 with New Flow center

    $13,689 Series 5 without New Flow center

    $14,813 Series 5 with New Flow center



    Quote 2

    Water Furnace Series 3 LDV048

    ECM 5 speed, 1 stage compressor, 5 yr part and labor

    Water Furnace Series 5 NDV049

    ECM variable, 2 stage compressor, 10 yr part and labor

    Geo Comfort GYT048

    ECM variable, 2 stage compressor, 10 year part and 5 yr labor

    (Schar price does not include flush-cost-$335 plus $100 permit minus $500 rebate


    $12,651 Series 3 with New Flow center

    Total $13,106

    $13,269 Series 5 with New Flow center

    Total $13,724
     
  7. Mark Custis

    Mark Custis Not soon. Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Frank:

    I do not think it would be worth spending the money on the compressor even with there being only one refrigerant event. We do not get tax credits for the repairs. If we have a major failure 1/1/2017 no 30% tax credit.

    We are an hour west of you in Willard.

    Let me make a call or two and get some numbers.

    Mark
    440.223.0840
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2016
  8. Frank Simon

    Frank Simon New Member

    Bottom two lines of quote got chopped off

    $12,208

    Total $12,143

    Just found out I had WF Premier P046 more equivalent to series 5
    Any opinions on GeoClimate
     
  9. docjenser

    docjenser Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Simple question.

    Would you invest $2000 of repair in a car worth $1000 after the repair? Without knowing what comes next?
    For some reason I always made the mistake to hold on too long on my cars, and always paid to much in the last couple years of ownership! If it is an item you need to use and depend on ....replace it sooner rather than later.
    There is a time when replacement makes sense. Now I lease my cars, have a fixed cost per month, and much lesser headaches.....
    Equipment got better, warranty, much higher efficiency, tax credit still around....it all screams replacement after 15 years.

    PS: Waterfurnace now has all aluminum air coils standard on 3 and 5 series.

    I personally never put a 3 series in a residential setting, the performance is much less than the 5 series, and the price after tax credit did not warranty the performance and warranty penalty. 5 series is my minimum standard, most of the units are 7 series we install now.
    Your milage might differ.
     
  10. Mark Custis

    Mark Custis Not soon. Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Frank:

    What is in your water? Do we want to upgrade to cupro-nickle heat exchanger/

    I looked at GeoClimate and saw the coil you spoke of, but I do not know enough about it to see a difference.
     
  11. Mark Custis

    Mark Custis Not soon. Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Doc and I do agree more often than not.

    Mark
     
  12. Frank Simon

    Frank Simon New Member

    lol Doc makes a lot of sense. The GeoClimate has aluminum condenser coil. So you are saying WF has the same? I was thinking I had copper in bad coil and that is what rotted. That is how I understood it anyhow. Not the heat exchanger. I like the series 5 at least to stay the same efficiency and component quality. What does the 7 offer?
     
  13. Mark Custis

    Mark Custis Not soon. Industry Professional Forum Leader

    The rot occurs between three metals. The copper tubes in the coils, the expanded aluminum fin tubes and the brazing or soldering materials. It can also be perforation of a weak wall. Most times it is galvanic disruption.

    For a few years the industry standard was to clean the coils. Then coatings. Then back to single metal. No one addressed indoor air pollution, just worked around it. If you have corrosive air in your home it will eat the coils.

    Many years working with Trane, (was GE) all aluminum coils, they worked fine since the factory glue copper stubs to the coils. I fear not.

    Hope to go to Westlake via Wadsworth 4/30/2016.
     
  14. Frank Simon

    Frank Simon New Member

    OK so you are saying WF has all aluminum air coil now and that problem should be better? Even with indoor pollution? I would assume examples are painting, etc
     
  15. Mark Custis

    Mark Custis Not soon. Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Painting, hair care, cat litter all kill units.

    call me, I do not want to post prices here.
     
  16. docjenser

    docjenser Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

  17. AMI Contracting

    AMI Contracting A nice Van Morrison song Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Virtually all manufacturers have rid themselves of the coil problem that virtually all of them had at one time or another. The brands that are easiest to find support on are Climatemaster, Waterfurnace and Bosch.
     
  18. arkie6

    arkie6 Member Forum Leader

  19. I am far from an expert, but 12k for a replacement seams nuts to me. you loop are in place, I assume you wouldn't replace your flow center if you repaired the unit, so why replace it now? You sound like a man who can make his way around a few tools. Have you considered just doing a swap yourself? You can find some pretty good deals on scratch and dent models on ebay, see if you have to pull any permits, and anything you can't handle (electric, plumbing, ect.) call a pro. I certantly cant see it costing 12k... Who knows you may be able to get a new unit in for less or slightly more than 2K. and through your old pump on ebay for parts and recover even more savings. Just my 0.02$ wish you luck!
     
  20. Frank Simon

    Frank Simon New Member

    I see some Climatemasters for $4k to $5k no flo center. I will need replacement flo center pumps while at it they are making noise.
     

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