I have two quotes in: Both are for nine ton systems (though one said 4 tons upstairs, 5 tons downstairs and the other vice-versa). There are two major differences: (1) WF vs CM and (2) horizontal trench (4 trenches x100' w/ 4 pipes in each) vs vertical well (5 wells x 275'). The WF with horizontal trench quote is 17% more expensive. Any thoughts on system comparisons and/or drilling methods? Thanks!
Hi and welcome, At the end of the day the machine and the method of exchange pale in comparison to the experiance of the installer doing your system. Due your homework and get info on both companies happy customers and the correct choice wil be apparent. Eric
Is the actual loopfield more or the overall cost of the job higher with the horizontal? In my area the vertical drilling/ton from us is very comparable to the price of a horizontal loop/ton. Back to the basis of this thread, I agree with the other two drillers above me who posted! That is 3 vertical drillers all agreeing that when installed correctly horizontal and vertical is the same. Personally I say "Drill, Baby, Drill.".
I don't know about the loopfield cost. The drilling part of the quotes weren't broken out. But one other thing I noticed. The pipe sizes are different. The horizontal is 1600' of 3/4" pipe, the vertical is 1375' of 1" unicoils (not sure what a unicoil is). Still think these are basically the same loopfields, operationally?
177/ ton horizontal with 3/4" Or 152/ton vertical with 1" What is the ground like down 6-8' for the horizontal? What are your conditions for drilling? Rock or sands?
This area is prone to have subsurface limestone, and maybe some karst voids. For the most part, good loamy soil. During a flood in 2010, water was coming into the basement from the floor (not the basement walls) - not sure what that says about our water table. Vertical man said they hope to hit rock to avoid using casings (required if a void encountered). But I wonder, how does heat exchange with a rock? Can I assume that (aside from yard damage) these loopfields are equivalent?
1600' of horizontal pipe sounds very short for a 9 ton system, be careful here. Hard to imagine any system would work anywhere in the US with that short of a loop. Something is wrong here. Vertical system size sounds reasonable, but more info is needed.
Horizontal seemed really short to me too. Vertical is near that 150'/ton "Internet approved" length. I would be more comfortable with each bore being a little deeper too if no conductivity testing is done.
Internet SWAG= simple wild a$$ guess vertical 125' to 275' horizontal 500' to 800' Vortizontal ???? anybody heard anything Eric
Ah Ha. Maybe that explains it. I wrote down 4x400' loops w/ 4 pipes in each. But when I compared to the vertical quote, I figured I must have misunderstood and he was really proposing 4x100' for a total of 1600'. If he was really proposing 6400', it would be more in line with these estimates. I'll get this clarified. Thanks everyone. Now, the question becomes do I want my entire yard dug up? That's a lot of trenching. JH
"Ah Ha. Maybe that explains it. I wrote down 4x400' loops w/ 4 pipes in each. But when I compared to the vertical quote, I figured I must have misunderstood and he was really proposing 4x100' for a total of 1600'. If he was really proposing 6400', it would be more in line with these estimates. I'll get this clarified. Thanks everyone." Okay perfect illustration of the problem. We get distracted from the main thrust of advice which is "pick the best dealer and he will take care of everything else" and get into a loop discussion which is based on GIGO. "Now, the question becomes do I want my entire yard dug up? That's a lot of trenching.".......and now we are off to the races in the wrong direction again. When we wrote the shoppers check list there was a lot of discussion about what to put in there regarding loops and there was a great debate, but the truth is- it doesnt matter, and the list could be "1) dealer, 2) dealer, 3) dealer" .....all the way to 10. Everything else really is just fluff.
Joe, I see your point...but disagree. If a buyer (me) is just supposed to call a few contractors and pick based on which guy we like the best or has done the most installations, what's the point of a forum like this? I try to learn as much as possible about an industry that I don't know anything about and am about to make a significant investment in. I've selected my contractor and I do trust his experience, but in weighing which contractor to go with, I think the checklist (and forum advice) gives me a lot of insight into what to look for. And, by the way, is it irrational to be concerned about 1/3 mile of 6' deep trench around/through my yard? It's only the "wrong direction" if you're not seeing it through your customer's eyes.
It is not irrational to be concerned about your yard or weigh it in only to make that a primary concern. Don't misunderstand me. Obviously I spend a lot of time offering thoughts on proposals to potential geo customers and invite my customers to do the same. If both loops perform equally, then you simply invite a contractor to mitigate lawn damage in his bid or install different style loops and then compare.
