Missouri Which Flow Center for new system

Discussion in 'Quotes and Proposals' started by FlyboyT77, Jan 24, 2019.

  1. FlyboyT77

    FlyboyT77 New Member

    Is it the same volume of water in 600ft of pipe full of water as compared to 800ft of pipe?
    Seems like that would be more total water running more distance. I'm guessing he has some program that tells him how much pumping he needs, but no idea how it's determined. The factory says I need 150' per ton, so with the extra well is 5.33tons worth of pipe/water to be shoved around.
  2. mtrentw

    mtrentw Active Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    800' of pipe has more water, but the pumps don't care about how much water is in the system. They only care about how much they have to move at any given time. If you think about pipe flow like traffic, it makes more sense. If the same number of cars need to move in one direction, there'll be less resistance if 4 lanes are open instead of 3.
  3. docjenser

    docjenser Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Your BS meter should be on high alert.
    PE loop pipe will expand with temperature more than the fluid in it, cause a drop in pressure, which will allow gases dissolved in the water to participate out. Thus micro bubbles will form. They will need to be purged out. Which is why non pressurized flow centers were developed.

    The notion that more parallel circuits need more pumping for the same amount of water being pumped is righteous silly. The opposite is the case. Beware! Lack of understanding of the person who tells you that.
  4. FlyboyT77

    FlyboyT77 New Member

    Thanks, doc, I completely agree as did the manufacturer in a YouTube training video with/Q&A they put out on the NP flow center. The micro-bubbles that form regardless of how good a job they do purging is why I decided to add the NP flow center to my install. I hope they have the skills to install it since they usually install only pressurized systems. In my area it seems the geothermal driller’s do all the water piping up to the furnace (from several installers/quotes), so the driller should be able to handle the NP center.

    Thank you all on the help with pumping, I’ll re-examine the estimate calculations for my price comparison for the extra well assuming keeping 1 x 26-99 pump and post that predicted savings.

    I’m trying to keep on high alert and directing this install based on my research, especially from this forum! The wealth of knowledge from industry experts here trying to push geothermal forward is amazing and very much appreciated! This area doesn’t deal with the extreme extended cold many of the experts on here do, so extreme efficiency and expertise isn’t expected around here. Geothermal installs are a low % of installs unfortunately. Most of the people at work I talk to haven’t heard of it as an option, even if the contractor they’re getting quotes from does geothermal installs. If my propane vendor hadn’t gotten so ridiculously expensive and ever fluctuating prices ($3.29-3.99/gal plus other expenses), I might not have considered it either.
  5. docjenser

    docjenser Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    It is very simple to put in...easier than pressurized, IMHO.
  6. FlyboyT77

    FlyboyT77 New Member

    If I kept 1 pump, it would be estimate of saving $25/yr for the extra loop and add $1500 for the loop at install. So it would take 60 years to pay that off. I could see it would make a big difference if having the extra loop would keep me out of emergency heat, but I don't think that will be the case.
  7. docjenser

    docjenser Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Larger loops only increase the entering water temperature slightly, which only increases the capacity minimally. If you want more capacity keep you out of emergency heat, you need to put a larger heat pump in.
    Deuce likes this.
  8. waterpirate

    waterpirate Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    I once had a conversation with a contractor that bragged about his geo systems never going into stage 2. I replied congratulations, you have just designed a system that is over sized and inefficient.
  9. docjenser

    docjenser Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    There is a difference between designing a system with a 2 stage heat pump, where the second pump never turns on, versus where the heat pump runs out in second stage on the cold days of the year, but does not go into supplement electric resistant heat.

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