What should I expect ?

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by RonL, Dec 5, 2018 at 4:50 PM.

  1. RonL

    RonL New Member

    I have been running fhp heat pumps open loop, (em031) for 30 years. First one would put out 100 degrees with 58 degree water. And 68 degree air temp input.
    2nd one is now doing 95 heat and 54 cool (78 degree input air temp for cooling)
    I was looking around at other units, as this one will need replacing in the next few years.
    Im only finding units that will do a 20 degree difference between in and out. Thus, my well is going to run more water through, units may be more efficiant, but running my well longer is not a good option. Am I reading these specs incorrectly on these newer geothermal heat pumps ?
     
  2. nc73

    nc73 Member

    I think 20 is minimum. Mine will do 24 in 1st and 27 in 2nd with 55 degree water. I had one that was leaking brand new out of box, it did 16 to 20. Why haven't you switched to closed loop? I would but getting someone to dig a pond for me is quite tricky.
     
  3. RonL

    RonL New Member

    Well. They dug my well. Ssid I had 30 gal/min. So I just did a pump and dump. Way cheaper. What brand are you running ?
     
  4. nc73

    nc73 Member

    Are running 1.5 gpm per ton? Anymore and it's a waste. You could probably save a lot of electricity if you were running small circulation pumps in a closed loop instead. I'm running Miami HP because Climatemaster lost my order after it was built. It's pretty basic, nothing fancy. If you're just doing pump and dump, it would be perfect. Most brands will do over 20.
     
  5. RonL

    RonL New Member

    I just recieved an email from miami heat pump, where they state only 20 degrees. I was looking at thier 2.5 or 3 ton unit. And the 1.5 is pretty much what I run through my fhp. With the difference in water pressure, it goes from 4.5 - 5.5 gpm.
    I will put in a dole valve to make it a constant number.. but just have been putting that off.
     
  6. nc73

    nc73 Member

    Yeah they state that even when i was troubleshooting with them over the phone, it's pretty standard from most manufacturers. It is obviously capable of 24 to 27 depending on stage. I have owned 2 of their HP, both exactly the same performance.
     
  7. nc73

    nc73 Member

    I had a 3 ton horizontal and the current one is 2.5 ton vertical.
     
  8. RonL

    RonL New Member

    The 2.5 would be a slide in replacement.. same amps.. just slightly lower in the btu range for heating .. but that 20 number really concerned me. Pretty cheap replacement cost though. I had at one point thought about buying from ingrhams . I may have to rethink the miami ..
     
  9. nc73

    nc73 Member

    Ingram was the vendor i initially ordered through. I was disappointed in how they handled my lost order. I wouldn't worry about that number. It will be much higher.

     
  10. RonL

    RonL New Member

    There are very few brands that I can just purchase without going through a dealer.. limited options.
     
  11. nc73

    nc73 Member

    well if you read the fine print for Miami HP, you have to have a pro install it for the warranty to be valid. I have found that isn't the case. They've sent me parts without ever asking for anything. Not sure about Climatemaster.
     
  12. RonL

    RonL New Member

    Was just looking at geostar, not sure if that is orderable, or if they have to install it. But they look pretty good too. I may give them a call today.. they may be high dollar, not sure yet.
     
  13. nc73

    nc73 Member

    Not sure but I think it's identical to WF
     
  14. docjenser

    docjenser Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    20F temp raise over the coil is relative, you can slow down the blower and you have 30 or 40F raise. It does not mean that the unit is not putting out a certain capacity, or needs to run longer.

    Over time, manufacturers have increased the airflow in their specification since they are no so much penalized in the AHRI rating procedure for increased blower power.
    In other words, they might pay 10 % more overall in system energy usage for much blower power, but it is not accounted in the ratings, because they gain 2% more total efficiency on the compressor side (which is accounted for), so their COP in the brochure goes from 4.1 to 4.2. It is a rating game.

    The same is the case for the source (water) side.

    And yes, Geostar is made by Waterfurnace and is the brand they sell through distributors instead of Dealer direct.
     
  15. RonL

    RonL New Member

    The ultimate goal is to replace current fhp em031, matching its output, as cheaply as possible. While trying to keep the incoming amps to use the current 30 amp breaker, and not overwork my well. The 2.5 mhp may be a bit underpowered. But the 3 will need a bigger breaker and bigger wiring. Plus not sure if my current generator would run it in a power lose situation. I guess that would give me an excuse to buy a bigger generator.. current one will put out 50 amps, 12Kw..
     

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