Waterfurnace TP32W02 Thermostat

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by saeheumsong, Jan 3, 2009.

  1. saeheumsong

    saeheumsong New Member

    New Geothermal Heat Exchange Method.

    :)Hi Team:)

    Thanks for waiting. Last year, I posted new geothermal heat exchange technology on this Web-Site. Non-Provisional Patent was finally filed on Dec 31st of 2008. And I updated web-site including brief technology-update and invitation of investors.

    The noble new geothermal heat exchange system is now named as NobleGeofurnace Heat Pump System utilizing GeoBattery System as a geothermal heat exchange system composed of heat depot(s) and heat transfer lines.

    This new system is compatible to any existing geothermal heat pumps both 'DX' and 'Water Source'.

    This new system does not require extensive excavation and drilling with compatible or even better efficiency.

    The payback period of this systm for new building is almost zero year and retrofit building depends on the condition of the house but significantly less than current closed-loop system either DX or water-source.

    I am currently looking for the partner to manufacture heat-depot and heat transfer lines.

    Precise information, please refer to www.noblegeofurnace.com.

    for further inquiries, please contact
    SaeHeum Song, Ph.D.
    CEO, Noble Geofurnace Inc.
    225 Opossum Rd, Skillman, NJ, 08558
    E-mail: ssong@noblegeofurnace.com
  2. urthbuoy

    urthbuoy Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    After having reviewed the link

    It is late. So I may have to re-think, but isn't the rate limiting step in all this the thermal conductivity of the soils?

    One could use a cube of pure water (pretty ideal transfer media or "heat depot") as a heat source, and while it would look good at first, it still needs heat moving "in to it" or "away from it" eventually.

    The long spatial design of ground loops is to limit interference between the pipes. All the pipes could be bundled up in a much smaller total volume and still have the same contact with the earth, but there is interference between the pipes in this manner.

    I admit, I may be missing something...
  3. dll

    dll New Member

  4. waterpirate

    waterpirate Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    heat depot?

    If I am reading this correctly it is just a dx system, with the heat depot containing a medium designed for exchange?
    It is a idea that would address the issue of ph in the soil which prohibits dx on the penninsula. However the "depot" is going to rely on soils type to facilitate transfer. What is the projected efficency of the depot for a given site, dry clay, vs. saturated sand?

  5. saeheumsong

    saeheumsong New Member

    Brook and new system

    That is good point, having running brook. This is not lake system or such a like. The distance from HD to the brook is over 50 ft. And there is not active flow under ground water table.
    HDs were installed above the level of the brook.
    Also you would like to think about what size of lake do you need to run heat-pump.

    Hope it helps your understanding..
  6. saeheumsong

    saeheumsong New Member

    Eric you are absolutely right it is 'DX' system in heat depot. This HD could be applied to water source system and I am now installing into a new building.
    The issues are
    (1)where or not 'HD'' system could exchange enough geothermal energy to the heat transfer lines.
    (2)Will the heat transfer lines could conduct enough heat transfer from HD to heat depot.
    (3) What is the value of removing drilling without need of extensive excavation?

    My system satisfies condition (1) and (2) leading to condition (3).

    Regarding the geology condition, the wet condition should be best in conductivity. I will address this issue with the bulkyness of the HD. By expanding width of HD by 100 % the available heat source will increase by minimum 300 % (2 power 2 = 4). So heat conductivity differerence in geology could be easily solved by proper use of adquate HD unit size and qunantity.

    SaeHeum Song
  7. saeheumsong

    saeheumsong New Member

    First think out how much land the slinky system could save (80 ft length/ton) compared to vertical drilling (200-300 ft), you could image how much land you could save if you have slinky in continuous coaxial flow (3 ft diameter * 20-30 ft length). The problem here is how to move water inside the slinky in continuous coaxial flow.

    My system developed method of
    (1) the moving the bulky water with no water pump.
    (2) Employing secondary closed water passing through HD.
    (3) Employing 'DX' like system.

    I hope it help your understanding,
  8. Palace GeoThermal

    Palace GeoThermal Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Sam, so far nothing you have said here or what I have read on your website has helped my understanding.

    Since you patent is in place, why don't you just tell us in simple terms how your system works.
  9. saeheumsong

    saeheumsong New Member

    The following is how the tube size help on geothermal heat exchange.
    Geothermal heat exchange with convention loop uses 1-2 inches of pipes to conduct geothermal heat exchange. The distance of geothermal heat needs to to travel is minimum 1-2 ft length with continous run. So, change in tube size to 2-4 inch does not make big differences since the geothermal mass acquiered by increasing 1 inch of tube size is minimal (25.1^2/(25.0^2) that requires much more horse power of water pump to reduce efficiency.

    If tube size is 2 ft compared to one inch the additional geothermal mass would be (48^2/24.1^2) equals 4. In such a way by increasing tube size (HD) size there are proportional increase in available geothermal surface.

    See also http://www.geoenergyusa.com/column.htmhttp://www.geoenergy.com that uses geocolumn, which may help you understand more.

    It takes time to understand and this is different concept than conventional ones.

  10. Palace GeoThermal

    Palace GeoThermal Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader


    Sorry I had your name wrong. The site that you posted a link to has nothing to do with geothermal??
  11. saeheumsong

    saeheumsong New Member

    Sorry, the website is GeoEnergy Enterprises, which uses DX system.

  12. clubmot

    clubmot New Member

    I installed a Waterfurnace 5 ton closed loop system when I built my house in 1987. This past November I finally installed a programmable Thermostat. Previously we kept our house at appox. 70 degreesF all the time during the winter. Since we installed the programmable, we set the temps at 62 deg F at night and during the day when we are at work and 66 deg.F during during wake up and early evening. We are using time of day electrical service. We expected to see a significant drop in KWH's in our last 2 electric bills, but to our surprise, there was not much change. In fact this year the avg. daily temp. in Jan was 4 deg.F higher than last year, and we only showed a 2 KWH avg. dauily use decline this month. I couldn't understand why we were not seeing a larger improvement. I thought the emergency was kicking in, but I've only seen the stage 1 and 2(no flashing) show up on the screen. Am I missing something? Is my temp. range too far apart??

  13. teetech

    teetech Member Forum Leader

    I have yet to see hard data to support any significant savings in energy when using programmable thermostats with GSHP.
    I think they are highly overrated.
  14. kind of relative to indoor/outdoor diff in temperature. If you are loolking at a 30 degree difference, and you back set 5 degrees 50% of the time, the net effect is maybe about 8% savings in energy usage. Your bill may go from $200 to say $180 for that month. Hard to notice in a month to month comparison, but the savings are there.
  15. geome

    geome Member Forum Leader

    I'm not a pro. :)

    There doesn't appear to be much you can do with this thermostat to gain a high degree of control over aux usage. Here are some things you could try.

    Set the Cycle Rate Selection in heat mode to slow in 1st, 2nd (if you have 2nd) and aux heat stages.

    Turn off the Select Fast Second Stage in heat mode. This is supposed to help with manual overrides to the program, but better engaged than not if you are interested reducing your electric bill.

    Enable Energy Management Recovery. This will turn on your heat early so it can try to get to your set point by the programmed time. This may or may not help keep aux from turning on as fast (if it is needed). WF can tell you for sure. This does help with some other brands of thermostats.

    Try setting back only 2 degrees. If you see a marked improvement in kW usage, (with everything else being equal) then aux may be engaging to recover from the 4 degree setback.

    Before you change anything, write down all current setting so you can go back to them if you wish.
  16. teetech

    teetech Member Forum Leader

    I will agree with that statement, but in northern climates when differential temps hit 50/60F and more set back will net little savings if any.
    To be effective you would need to need to monitor the outside temps as well and adjust accordingly.
  17. WF_Inc

    WF_Inc Member


    We have read through your comments regarding your thermostat. Please provide us with your model and serial numbers. Also, does the thermostat you purchased have Intelligent Recovery? Once we have this information we can investigate your inquiry and respond to your comments.

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