WaterFurnace pricing

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by nywines1, Feb 10, 2009.

  1. nywines1

    nywines1 New Member

    Anyone know what I should expect to pay for a replacement WF unit? Still need to give details, but likely need to replace 9 yo unit (5 yr. warranty...!). Says compressor is shot and likely caused other damage. Previous repairs include crack in hood tap tube?, new thermostat, water pressure adjustment, and DHW gaskets. Had to recently replace hot water heater, too (7yo). Current unit is Premier 2 ATV, size 070, hot water generation w/pump. May want to go up to a better model if ground tubing can carry it.
  2. WestQuebec

    WestQuebec Guest

    Waterfurnace Cash Rebate + Federal Tax Credit

    I can not provide an anwer to your question directly but... this may be your day of luck. Visit the Waterfurnace website (WaterFurnace - Smarter from the Ground Up) as they have a special cash rebate ($2000) until March 31, 2009 for people looking to replace their 10 years old or newer Waterfurnace units with a WF Envision system. The WF cash rebate would come in addition to the 30% Federal tax credit (currently cap at $2000, but current stimulus package being discussed in Congress may lift this cap). With these rebates, you may be able to replace your unit at a very low cost indeed. :)
  3. Mark Custis

    Mark Custis Not soon. Industry Professional Forum Leader

    With all that trouble

    You want another one?
  4. TechGromit

    TechGromit Member

    $15,140, that what I just paid to have a 4 ton Priemer Water Furance installed with Desuperheater, new hot water tank and all required wiring. Your install might be $20 or $30 cheaper since you proably do not require new electrical wiring, breakers and a hot water tank.

    Replacing after 9 years? That doesn't engourge me. The FHP I replaced was 19 years old, I am demanding at least that much time from a supposely better brand.

    This rebate concerns me, why would anyone want to replace a working unit with a new one? An why only units that are less then 10 year old? My Initial research indicated that Water Furance units were the best available, but since I've installed one, I'm not so sure anymore. Hell I have a 10 year loan for the system, if it doesn't even last long enough to pay it off, I'll be damn I'm going to get another one.

    Rebate or no rebate, Unless the contractor could provide you a valid reason why it failed so soon, I wouldn't be getting another WF. Why can't it be repaired?
  5. nywines1

    nywines1 New Member

    stuck between the rock and hard place

    I am so befuddled and disturbed by my WF experience and appreciate all your comments and help. I am a typical homeowner, with no electrical/plumbing/environ. experience, but was turned on to the geothermal by our builder who recommended the system. Unfortunately, the dealer is the only one in the area and the only repair people WF gave me. They basically shrug their shoulders as to why it failed. To top it off, we put another one into my parents' new house next door. It has been in for 2 yrs. and we have had trouble with it. No one lives in the house from Nov. to March and last year we had $500+ electric bills for ea. month no one was there (they claimed something burned out and faulted us because we let it run with warning lights blinking for 2 months- that's because no one lived there! now I go over weekly and ck status lights). Once again this winter, same scenario, we are getting $300+ bills.After getting knowledge from this site (you guys are great!), I'm going to pursue that beast after I get mine up and running again. I must say, we were happy with the unit the first few years- 4000sq.ft. house with low elec. bills in the summer running a/c was great. The winters have killed us the past few years tho. I contemplated going back to conventional heat/ac, but since the expensive excavating and such is already done, I figure it may be a wash. Besides, I would like WF to give me a better explanation. Just make sure your unit at least has a 10 yr. warranty!
  6. nywines1

    nywines1 New Member

    Also, dealer says the compressor can be replaced (for $2000) but there may have been other damage done and may still cause problems. I would love to get another opinion, but doesn't seem to be any other repair people in the area. (Western NY)
  7. Mark Custis

    Mark Custis Not soon. Industry Professional Forum Leader

    I would need to know more

    but I would tend to NOT put a new compressor in a nine year old unit. I would want to know why it failed. In my experience most compressors fail due to dirt.

    There are other manufactures that produce these machines. What is the BTU rating of the dead machine? Do you know what is in the loop field?
  8. nywines1

    nywines1 New Member

    BTU rating I believe is 70,000. I don't know what is in the earth loops- they are horizontal.
  9. nywines1

    nywines1 New Member

    WaterFurnace questionable?

    At this point, WaterFurnace is not willing to give us anything except their "stimulus pkg." they are offering everyone else. I, too, an concerned they are offering people to replace out their <10yo systems- obviously, they didn't live up to their 20-25yr. worry-free advertisements. Dealer wants to replace with a Premier plus a flow meter for $13,000. Also, repairman found an oil leak when diagnosing the compressor burn out. Don't know if that's telling of other problems.
  10. nywines1

    nywines1 New Member

    Replacing WaterFurnace?

    Does anyone know if I could replace a WaterFurnace Premier 2, with a totally different brand (from a different manufacturer) and still use my existing ground piping?
  11. hardchines

    hardchines Member Forum Leader

    Your pipes do not know what they are hooked up to, so yes!
  12. nywines1

    nywines1 New Member

    I'm in Geneva- what kind did you get and are you happy so far with it?
  13. engineer

    engineer Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Just don't tell the pipes...

    Try to figure out why the old one died

    Most systems don't die - they're murdered
  14. geo fan

    geo fan Member Forum Leader

    I like that one

    An oil leak
    That means a refrigerant leak
    Which could cause failure
    But I have also seen Compressor failure blow the weld open on hermetic compressors ( very very rare )

    My thoughts on the 2K stimulus
    I will put it simple ( just a guess dont sue )
    class action avoidance
    hopefully if this is true design/defects have ben taken care of
    and they are hoping to get as many old units in the dumpster before it becomes apparent
    Again complete guess no history or facts to support
  15. Mark Custis

    Mark Custis Not soon. Industry Professional Forum Leader

    I am multi-doing

    Yes you can change manufacturers and install ECM pumps with a delta P to make it work.
  16. AndyF

    AndyF New Member

    The price you mentioned in one of your other posts seems high to me based on the information that you have provided. Since all the dealer is doing is changing out the existing system and possibly modifying the plenum to fit the new unit and minor other changes and adjustments, I would think the cost would be less, of course I don't know your complete situation.

    I installed a WaterFurnace Envision 5 ton unit 1-1/2 years ago and it works great. Technology has changed a lot in the last ten years and the newer models are bound to be better. If I had a 9 year old unit that was out of warranty and in need of a compressor, and I had the opportunity to get a $2000 rebate, a federal tax credit, and a new higher efficiency unit with a 10 year warranty I would jump at the chance.

    I heard rumors that the Federal government is going to remove the $2000 cap on the tax credit and that they may offer cash payments in place of the tax credit. I guess we will have to wait to see what is in the final bill.
  17. TechGromit

    TechGromit Member

    Were not talking about toaster ovens here, these things are ultra expensive. A better effiecency rating would have to be substancial to justify the cost of replacing a operational unit. A COP from 3.5 to 5.0 just doesn't cut it.
  18. TechGromit

    TechGromit Member

    It is strange that only units 10 years or newer qualify for the stimulus. But I doubt a design defect is the reason why. It's not like where talking about cars here, where as a design defect is a threat to people's safety. That's one of the main reason's products get recalled that are out of warranty, some defect is discovered that injuries / kills people which in turn allows people to sue the manufacture. Unless your aware of any stories where a water furnace blew up causing damage or loss of life, I doubt it has anything to do with class action avoidance.

    It could be a attempt to protect there image. If there are a number of defective units out there what where built within the last ten years, getting the owner to replace them at there cost would be a hell of lot cheaper than waiting for warranty claims.

    Or it could be just a way to drum up bussiness in a slow ecomony. But why then exclude older systems from the sale? One would think that would be where most of the replacement systems are sold to.
  19. moondawg

    moondawg Member

    Older units are likely going to be replaced anyway, so there's no need to entice someone to upgrade their unit.

    Units that are getting close to expiring their warranty may suddenly look attractive with $2k credit from FW with addition of $$$$ from the federal government.

    If a new envision unit goes for 8k, you'd be looking at 2k from WF and 1.6k from Uncle Sam..... = $4.4k out of pocket. not bad. for a new unit with new warranty.

    It might be worth a $4.4k "up-front, out-of-pocket" cost to avoid getting nickel-and-dimed for the same amount once the unit was out of warranty...especially if you're avoiding unexpected system downtime for repairs.

    It might be ESPECIALLY worth it if someone had a slightly undersized unit that was using alot of backup heat.... Just an extra $500/year for the next 10 years gets your payback.

    If WF happens to be sitting on alot of inventory, $2k is a pittance for them to pay to get those "assets" off their books.

    Good way to generate revenue and decrease assets all at once!
  20. AndyF

    AndyF New Member

    My 20 year old toaster oven works just fine, and I'm not sure how technology could make it any better. On a geothermal unit technological advances can increase performance and efficiency.

    We were talking about a unit with a dead compressor. Replace the compressor or put a new unit in with a new warranty - technology and reliability will be better with the new unit and he gets a new 10 year warranty, that is a no brainer.

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