Nebraska WaterFurnace 7 series or Trane TVGX

Discussion in 'Quotes and Proposals' started by Krishna, Aug 9, 2016.

  1. Krishna

    Krishna New Member

    Hello,

    If you look at my other posts, You would know that I have been struggling with CM Trilogy Q45 system.
    After numerous repair attempts and factory technician visits, I still have some issues with the unit and factory keeps saying that it is only a software issue.

    I got tired and now even the installer is not interested in working on the unit and there is no other geo elite dealer in my area to work on the unit.

    I have requested Climate Master to give me a refund. I am in process of removing the unit and getting a refund.

    I am currently planning to install a Water Furnace 7 series or Trane TVGX, I have multiple quotes..


    Since, I already have more than enough loops and all the duct work and stuff, I called multiple installers to get waterfurnace and Trane quotes.

    all the installers confirmed that there is no issue with loops and duct work and said that they would re use them.

    As of now, I have only waterfurnace quotes, I will only have one trane quote and they are working on the numbers still.

    1: Water Furnace Geo Pro dealer:
    4 Ton Water Furnace 7 Series unit.
    $17000

    2: Not a geo pro
    3 ton 7 series
    $19000

    3: Not a geo pro
    3 ton 7 series
    $24000
    2 year complete satisfaction guarantee, ( total refund if not satisfied)
    2 year labor free after installation. With purchase of maintenance package from them which is $200/year, labor and parts are free for 10 years.


    what do you all think about above quotes and does any one have any thoughts about the trane unit?
     
  2. docjenser

    docjenser Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    If I am not mistaken the Trane unit is made by water furnace and has the same specs as the 7 series.
    Cannot comment about quotes and ability of dealer to to a good job. Talk to some of their customers.
     
  3. Mark Custis

    Mark Custis Not soon. Industry Professional Forum Leader

    I can ship my tools. Fly the crew out. Take about a week. Do the job correctly. Fly the tools and me home for a bunch less than those numbers.

    I am sure the CM guys are laughing behind their hands. I am sure they will not pay that much.

    I will do what ever you want but I like Bosch.

    There are things that make me think I will come out of disability/retirement.

    Mark
     
  4. docjenser

    docjenser Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    I am sure you are also there for service calls in Nebraska.

    $17K is not out of the way for a 7 series 4 ton. Add a variable speed flow center, the needed thermostat, air pad, electric heat element, control wiring, possibly desuperheater and a buffer tank, adapt the piping connections and the ductwork, and on and on....
    Suddenly the $17 for a 4 ton 7 series appears relatively reasonable.

    Bosch obviously has no variable compressor speed technology.
     
  5. Mark Custis

    Mark Custis Not soon. Industry Professional Forum Leader

    I am sure your water warriors can handle the issues when it comes to warranty. I am not sure why they need so much cash over their costs.

    Well who's money are you spending.

    OK. I will walk and drag my tools in a little red wagon, pulled by plastic bison, for five dollars.
     
  6. Krishna

    Krishna New Member

    Mark,

    Thank you very much for the offer. As mush as I want to take help from you, there are some things I am concerned with..

    1. Like doc said, I don't think BOSCH has a true variable unit and I definitely want a comparable or superior unit than the one I have and the only option would be Water Furnace 7 series and Trane TVGX, I heard that symphony does not come with Trane and it is Water Furnace exclusive even though Trane units are made by water furnace. So, the only option here is Water Furnace 7 series.

    2. I do not want some one else coming to work on the unit and finger pointing business. I want the Installer to be there with me to work on the unit.

    3. The Installer that I am thinking to go with is geo pro dealer recommended to me by the water furnace corporate when I called them for help. I called the regional Manager for my state and she assured me that she will be there all the way thru during Installation phase and make sure that everything is done properly..

    I think they are particularly very much interested in this project as I am coming from Climate Master Trilogy unit and If they do it right, they know for sure that they will have a repeat customer.

    Yes, I am not getting enough refund to fund a new unit like 7 series but, at the end of the day, I am happy that I am at least not stuck with something defective and have something on my hand to get a replacement. Water Furnace also said that they will try to give me some additional discount and the Installer is also willing to help me a little bit with that.

    I am happy that things are turning to be a lot better now and hope to see some stress free unit now.
     
  7. Krishna

    Krishna New Member

    Doc and Mark,

    I have one more question if you guys could help me..

    With the trilogy unit, Water Heater is part of the package and now it will go away. I was thinking to get a 50 gallon GE Geo Spring Hybrid Heat Pump water heater and a buffer tank since I am ordering 7 series with a desuper heater.
    But, my installer is saying to forget the buffer tank and get a 80 gallon geo spring instead. He also said that he can do buffer tank if I insist him to.

    I have read here that desuper heater with out a buffer tank is of no use.

    Do you recommend getting a buffer with geo spring or go with what installer is recommending.

    I also think that Installer knows what he is talking about and also he has some good number of installations.

    He has a 7 series in his own house, he showed it to me.
     
  8. docjenser

    docjenser Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    A desuperheater (DSH) will make 65% of your domestic hot water, but will make less than 10% without a buffer tank. Forget the DSH without a buffer. It would never turn on since the tank is kept hot by the heat pump water heater.

    A heat pump water heater in combo with a buffer tank and a DSH is the second best solution, only second to having a separate dedicated hot water geo heat pump for your hot water. But at a huge price increase, many times not worth it. I would go with DSH, buffer and heat pump water heater as a final tank.

    It would give you the biggest bang for the buck, and would have great efficiency. The 7 series output for the DSH is higher due to the longer run times, you do not have the cycling losses.

    Good to put your WF territory manager on the spot. It assures extra attention.
     
    Josh W likes this.
  9. Krishna

    Krishna New Member

    Do you have any recommendation for a buffer tank?
     
  10. Mark Custis

    Mark Custis Not soon. Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Cheap big box electric tank. 6 year warranty is enough.

    I said maybe come out of retirement.
     
  11. docjenser

    docjenser Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    We use the Bradford White with foam insulation. 50 gal. Quality of the buffer tank is not that crucial.
     
  12. Krishna

    Krishna New Member

    Update:

    WaterFurnace 7 series unit is ordered, should be here by next week and my Installer said that he will work with my old installer for them to take the ClimateMaster unit away and put the 7 series same day so that I will not have any interruption in service.

    Went to lowes yesterday and bought GE GeoSpring Heat Pump Water Heater to use as finish tank and Whirpool electric water heater to use as a buffer.. I will update here with pics once the install is done..
     
  13. engineer

    engineer Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    3 or 4 ton?

    That detail should have been resolved via a careful load calc prior to ordering the system. That said, oversizing is not as critical with variable capacity systems.
     
  14. Krishna

    Krishna New Member

    It is 4 ton unit. 3 ton would have been enough with occasional need of aux heat but, I already have loops enough for even a 5ton unit and also my installer said that the 4ton system would cost 800 more than the 3 ton unit. So, I went ahead with the 4 ton unit.

    I am expecting that the 4 ton unit in my situation would almost never run @ full load.

    If it was not a variable unit, I would have opted for 3ton but, since it is 7 series unit, I opted for 4 ton with out a hesitation and expecting that the unit would run @ part load 99% of the time and hence making it more efficient.
     
  15. docjenser

    docjenser Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    We see that sizing them larger (them being the 7 series) will gain you efficiency, since the heat exchangers are oversized compared to the load. Again, variable speed changes many design standards.
     
  16. Krishna

    Krishna New Member

    Update:

    Unit is here, Installer just called me and said that they will install the system this Friday.. Get ready for the pics..
     
  17. Krishna

    Krishna New Member

    Doc, a question for you, Upon reading this forums and some other internet articles, I am seeing that there is E15 Hot Water Limit warning or error.
    and some are saying that it is just a warning and some are saying that it is lack of buffer tank.

    What is your experience with this? do you think it a software glitch? Does it happens with all the 7 series units?

    my understanding is that if it does not happen with all the 7 series units, it is definitely not a software glitch and some thing to do with settings.

    Just wanted to have some info and understanding when and if I ever come across this error\warning..
     
  18. docjenser

    docjenser Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Just have the DSH temp limit set to 140F instead of 130F (factory setting) and you will unlikely get it.
     
  19. Krishna

    Krishna New Member

    IMG_20160826_165202.jpg IMG_20160826_165155.jpg IMG_20160826_165145.jpg IMG_20160826_165126.jpg IMG_20160826_165110.jpg IMG_20160826_165102.jpg IMG_20160826_165046.jpg IMG_20160826_165036.jpg IMG_20160826_165024.jpg IMG_20160826_165012.jpg


    The Install went fine today and the unit is up and running. Here are the pics of my unit and the duct work when the built the house last year. Please look at the pics and let me know your comments about the install and also the duct work.
     
  20. Krishna

    Krishna New Member

    Here are the rest.. IMG_20160826_165012.jpg IMG_20160826_165001.jpg IMG_20160826_164947.jpg IMG_20160826_164931.jpg
     

Share This Page