Water Conditioning

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by FYN409, Mar 7, 2011.

  1. FYN409

    FYN409 New Member

    We are looking to put in a 3 ton open loop geo. Our water tests out at 23 gpg hardness. I have spoken with my contractor and he does not feel that will be an issue. Someone I spoke with had reccomeded a GMX water conditioner if we wanted the piece of mind. I have done some reading about GMX water conditioners (magnetic) online and the opionions are from "works great, no scale buildup" to "Snake oil". Do any of you have any experience with this type of setup? Should I be concerned with 23 gpg hardness?

    Thanks,
    Ryan
     
  2. Mark Custis

    Mark Custis Not soon. Industry Professional Forum Leader

    If you are worried

    about the water's effect on the machine I would not go pump and dump. An option would be a tougher heatexchanger containing nickle.

    I just can not see conditioning water to toss down the drain after removing 4 to 6 degrees of heat.

    Mark
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2011
  3. Looby

    Looby Member Forum Leader

  4. waterpirate

    waterpirate Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Holy link batman!!!

    Thanx for that. It would have taken me hours to even think of the first 10%.
    Thanx
    Eric
     
  5. Mark Custis

    Mark Custis Not soon. Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Snake oil aside

    I would not condition the water to a pump and dump.
     
  6. FYN409

    FYN409 New Member

    Water Quality

    Am I misunderstanding something in regards to hardness and scaling..... My understanding is if the hardness does cause some scaling, it just means that we may need to back flush the heat exchanger more often is that correct? Am I missing something here? I am going with the cupra-nickel exchanger just in case and from what I have read, and the people I have talked with I should not have an issue with my hardness. I am new to this so that is why I am researching. In my discussions I have talked with people with harder water and they are not having any issues.

    Thanks,
    Ryan
     
  7. Mark Custis

    Mark Custis Not soon. Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Water is water

    but it is also in my mind, the universal solvent. What it will eat depends a lot on what it has eaten. I have been drinking Lake Erie since 09-09-49 and have yet to die, however since Lake Erie sits in a very large limestone bowl, the water I drink contains large amounts of lime. I am not sure I would like to see what happens if I ever got flushed like one is told to do to one's domestic hot water tanks.

    If you fear your water, do not put it in your geothermal heat pump. Buy the closed loop system. A five ton loop system can be had for under $5,000.00 if you know me.
     
  8. Looby

    Looby Member Forum Leader

    No wurries. Magical magnets are 100% scam, so the water ain't "conditioned."


    If a husband, alone in a forest, says something that no one hears...

    ...is he still wrong?

    Looby
     
  9. geome

    geome Member Forum Leader

    Yep - we're always wrong. :)
     
  10. Mark Custis

    Mark Custis Not soon. Industry Professional Forum Leader

    I remember that quote

    being about sound. YES.
     
  11. CalBob

    CalBob New Member

    Magical magnets are 100% scam, so the water ain't "conditioned."

    One system that I believe does work is 'ScaleBlaster' (scaleblaster.com). This system introduces some sort of electric induction into the water pipe that turns most if not all of the water hardness into suspended particulates. This results in no scaling but is not considered to be a water softener. I have researched this pretty extensively and it appears it does do the job it claims to do pretty well for a lot of commercial and industrial users. I suppose seeing first-hand is believing but for a $1,000 dollars I think I'm inclined to try it rather then depend on backflushing. Unless you use chemical in the back flushing process I don't think you are going to remove built up scale and it seems to me with my experience with humidifiers that scale builds up pretty fast. My 2 cents worth;-)

    Bob:)
     
  12. Looby

    Looby Member Forum Leader

    .
    Yeah, whatever.
     
  13. engineer

    engineer Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Humidifiers scale up owing to evaporation which is not a factor in geo loops.
     
  14. pljmb

    pljmb New Member

    coil vs magnet scale treatment

    There is apparently a significant difference between application using a powered coil vs "clamp-on magnets". See attached. In this study, clamp-on magnets had no percieved benefit, while the coil application did. One challenge would be determining which company has the best cost/benefit device for powered coil operation.
     

    Attached Files:

  15. Looby

    Looby Member Forum Leader

  16. pljmb

    pljmb New Member

    Very clever link titles, but not welcome. I suppose you will say that ASHRAE published studies on cooling tower heat exchangers from Drexel University's Mechanical Engineering department are "part of the precipitate". The used essentially the same solenoid coil technology.

    I guess for us that are looking for factual information for use with our own open loop system to prevent scale buildup have to decide if the recommendations from the UK advertising standards authority (citing "previous studies" but no references) or journals from ASHRAE are correct.

    The only practicle thing the layperson has to rely on it testimonials from consumers as most would not be able to understand ASHRAE technical journals, however it appears even the industry professionals are in conflict on the technology.
     

    Attached Files:

  17. Looby

    Looby Member Forum Leader



    "Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."

    -- The White Queen
    .
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2011
  18. pljmb

    pljmb New Member

    Can you read, or just dish out sarcastic, condescending quotes?

    The legitimacy of the forum is becoming increasingly questionable if those rated as "Senior Members" and "Industry Professional" don't give a thoughtful/professional reply to posts that include ASHRAE publications.

    Must be time to go elsewhere....:cool:
     
  19. waterpirate

    waterpirate Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    The thing that is being overlooked here is the differance in cost between residential and commercial.

    In commercial work the widget of the week is specifed by the engineer and installed. If it fails it is removed, the engineer backs up his design with some studies such as you cited and the owner gets to spin the wheel and pay again.

    In a residential application failures like that kill finances, and kill projects.

    Most of the Senior members and Industry pro's here could cry you a river about what happens when commercial concepts are applied to residential projects.

    All that being said, it is the internet, it is supposed to be snarky.

    Eric
     

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