Pennsylvania Variable speed NOT worth the money??? Somebody help...

Discussion in 'Quotes and Proposals' started by Jerome Scarpati, Feb 5, 2018.

  1. Jerome Scarpati

    Jerome Scarpati New Member


    My name is Jerome, I have been here before and received great feedback from many here. Thank you all.

    I am days away from breaking ground on my home project, a 4000 sqft home in climate zone 5 in Pennsylvania. I have done my own ground loop installation which was directed in part by the great folks here at the forum.

    After much deliberation and reading, I decided I wanted to go with the waterfurnace 7 series. I liked the bells and whistles and the efficiency of the variable everything seeemed awesome. I got quotes from 3 local dealers... a lot of variability!!! Then, I spoke with a 4th professional who had an alternative thought process, which led to this post and my seeking guidance.

    This 4th guy told me that in my climate zone, the efficiency of the variable speed 7 series’s will be less pronounced than in a colder climates... he is steering me to a more affordable 2 stage 5 series... he states that for the several thousand dollar increase in price for the 7 series, I won’t ever see the return in investment as my lower costs of usage will be minimal... again because of where I am located.

    Of note, I have ruled out a bias on his part. He said he would be glad to sell me a 7 series, just at the higher costs. He knows I am trying my best to be as cost conscious as I can, is it looking out for my best interest...

    So, is this true? How can I quantify it? Just looking for some unbiased feedback... thanks again to all.
  2. bdbsenji

    bdbsenji New Member

    I'm sure the pros will chime in here and give you some good advice. But I recently changed out a 2 stage Envision unit, which is essentially a 5 series unit, with a 7 series. What I will tell you, is the 7 series is
    incredibly quiet. It runs on lower stages a lot and keeps the temp. within a gnat's a__! It also sips energy! My 4 ton unit on stage 3 is using 882 watts (695=compressor, 128=blower, 69=pump) producing
    24,000 BTU, on stage 1 it is using 513 watts producing 13,770 BTU. In terms of payback, you MAY never get it back, however, energy costs will never go down and you cannot put a price on comfort and
    quietness. Either way you wind up going make sure you get a variable speed pump. The 5 series is capable of operating the variable speed pump, basically in two different speeds, but the pump is incredibly
    energy efficient. I am using a non-pressurized system with 2 variable speed pumps to operate a 4 ton series 7 and a 3 ton series 5 unit.

    Hopefully, Doc will chime in!

  3. Jerome Scarpati

    Jerome Scarpati New Member

    Steve, thank you for your info. Advice from someone who has the products is invaluable. I don’t want to sound too cheap, but as we are getting down to the nickels and dimes of my build, the costs of the systems matter more to me right now than the quietness. Either system I choose will be in a basement closed mehanical room.

    Assuming both the 5 and 7 series are able to make my home equally comfortable, the question still remains of how much more efficient in terms of dollar value is the 7 over the 5...??? I’m all for quality and spending more now to save later. If the 7 is going to save me money on the long run, I’ll spend the money now. But if I’ll only save a few bucks a month and never see the savings, I can’t justify spending a lot more up front just to have the fancier model.

    Is there any way to quantify this?
  4. urthbuoy

    urthbuoy Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    There is definitely a way to quantify the payback. Whomever did your heat loss/heat gain sizing can calculate the annual fuel costs fairly readily.
  5. moey

    moey Member

    Comfort has a price.. You could put a wood stove in and buy a chain saw it would be cheaper maybe even more comfortable.

    Id get a variable speed.
  6. RunTime

    RunTime New Member

    The noise may be more than just where the unit is located. With the 5 you may have a lot more blower stops and starts and higher velocity air to annoy you.
  7. bdbsenji

    bdbsenji New Member

    I don't want to be disrespectful, but you should re-read your post. You are building a 4000 sq. ft home and griping about a $2000 up charge. You might be better served by knocking off 10 sq. ft so you can afford the 7 series.
    There is nothing wrong with the 5 series, since I have one of each, but the 7 series is worth the money regardless if it ever recoups the extra money in energy savings. The other thing I would like to mention, when I had the older
    Envision Unit,(prior to replacing it with the 7 series) on startup you would have a significant light flicker. This problem was solved when I had an Intellistart kit installed on the unit. So if you wind up going with the 5 series make
    SURE that you order the unit with the intellistart installed at the factory and as I said before make sure you get a variable speed pump. The cost to run the pump can be VERY significant. I will also reiterate what RunTime has said,
    when the unit is running in the lower stages, the air velocity noise is VERY low, you have to hold your hand over the grille to see if it is running. Good Luck!
  8. docjenser

    docjenser Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    I continue to be impressed by the 7 series, and we are starting to make it defect standard in our installations. You put one of them in and you really don't want to put anything else in. I replaced a dual stage Climatemaster (heat controller) TT27 6 ton with a 5 tonSeries 7.

    35.6% energy savings, much lesser supplement heat use, much quieter and more comfortable operation....
    I understand the cost constrains, but for $2K more it is a no brainer. It was the biggest breakthrough in geo technology I have seen in all my years.

    3 ton new built

    5 ton retrofit
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018

Share This Page