Virginia Trilogy 45 versus 7 SERIES

Discussion in 'Quotes and Proposals' started by Geothermal Spirits, Dec 7, 2015.

  1. sodajerk

    sodajerk Member

    What do your customers with the 45 think about it? The couple posts online from customers I've read have been very positive.

    Could your issues with the hardware be related to the damage to it during transit?
  2. docjenser

    docjenser Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    I agree, they look good on paper.;)
  3. sodajerk

    sodajerk Member

    Here are the quotes from the posts I found. I've emailed the one poster to ask if his system is still running well.

    June 6th, 2014

    It is available because I have mine running since this past Monday, June 2nd. It is great unit. I set the cooling at 70 degree and runs at 30% capacity of the compressor. When hot water demand, the compressor run at 50% taking the heat from the house cooling and put it in the iGate Smart Water Tank. The hot water was set at 120 and I have 4 people taking hot shows one after each other no problem without backup heat element turn on. I was very worry the hot water won't keep up the demand but concern is over now. Best of all I can adjust any setting over the internet because the thermostat is WiFi enable and there is a app for Android and iphone. The install is very clean unclutter because the variable flow pump is build-in the unit. No external flow center. I love my Trilogy...

    Same person posted on August 4th 2014:
    I have waited for two years for this unit to come out and mine was install in June. Its been very good with full time hot water in 85 gallons tank i have set it at 120 degree even the geo is not running. The geo runs most of the time at 30% capacity and sometimes it runs at 50% if hot water or cooling in high demand. I can't speak of the cost because it is really up to your negotiation with your installer and the cost of the installer getting from the ClimateMaster dealer. Mine installation with a 6 ton vertical ground loop, two bore holes each 450 feet down and 60 feet apart. The Trilogy Q45 is 4 ton system. Original contract was 5 ton. Since this unit is new and they have only 4 ton. 5 ton will come out later might be next year, not sure. I was afraid 4 ton would undersized but installer did several recalculation with different companies to assure me the 4 ton will handle my heating and cooling demand. He told me 4 ton would be better because the system will run at low capacity instead of turning on and off all the time during heating and cooling. My house is around 3500 square feet. So far during these two months of cooling the system did what it suppose to do. I did not have any problem or maintenance issues yet but like I say, I am so glad I got this system. There is no looking back and I stand by my own decision this is the right unit to get. I was thinking in the beginning between the Water Furnance Series 7 or this ClimateMaster Trilogy Q45. Series 7 cannot produce full time hot water. The flow center is built in the unit and there is no need for external bulky flow center for the loop. The install is very clean. Installer took out my natural gas water heater. He told me there is no need for that gas water heater no more because that 85 gallon tank will be the only tank I need. 5 people taking shower one after each other no problem with the hot water demand. No need to wait for the hot water to recover like my natural gas unit. The unit is really, I mean really silent. I'm standing next to the unit and I cannot even tell the unit is running because I simply don't hear any noise or vibration at all. There is an app you can download for iphone or Android that can trouble shooting the unit. The unit came with an WiFi enable Ecobee thermal-stat. The themal-stat is programmable in many ways and I can remote access it any where with a computer or an app you can download on your phone. Installer or ClimateMaster can remote diagnose or trouble shooting the unit if there is any problem. They can remote into the system if you give them the pin number you set at the for security. I live outside Philadelphia close to Delaware border. If anyone interested come see my unit, you're welcome and I'll be glad to show you or you can email me Hope this help.

    And on November 4th about a system installed October 20th a different person posted about their installation of a trilogy 45:

    Hasn't been too cold here yet but so far its working great. Runs nearly 100% of the time if its below 45-50 degrees, but it's supposed to. Hot water cost for a family of 6 has been about .60 a day so far. There was one small cold snap where it was in the upper 20s 2 nights and it did great.

    So maybe yours was a bad unit? It doesn't make up for the poor customer service, but perhaps you just had bad luck in regards to your specific trilogy not working properly.
  4. I to waited for years for a geo system to come out with this design. But for me and our few it has only been great on paper.
    The on demand hot water is doing fine if your family is between 2-3 people.
    In our home we have 5 people that uses alot of hot water. So when we drop alot of hot water the machine is running in the A/C mode while moving air across the coil it drives the space cooling down 5 degrees below temp set point thus having to run at 100%+ capacity for extended run times or causing my aux heat to jump in to raise the space temp back up in the heating mode.
    As far as the on demand supply of hot water the unit has functioned for the most part as it was designed. I haven't been fortunate enough to use the system in forced air conditioning.
    The controls system was the highlight for me as it was flawless. The thermostat screen is very small and is a set back for people with tough eyesight.
    I love the Igate interface for the Trilogy. Awesome.
    All temp and pressure sensors are transducers.

    Now comes the fun part.
    After having the unit in for a few days the system started tripping the 70 amp max fuse breaker feeding the unit. It only trips on occasions and everything is checking out.
    We installed the CM 85 gallon water heater about 1 week later. We had the factory installed vacuum breaker leak a little from the start. I had my local rep call CM on a THUR morning to have the part next day aired to me. She waited 1 day with no response to have to call them 4 times on a Friday to be told that part does not exist nor did they know what the part was. So after hearing this I called them direct and got a response that JEFF was not in and was gone for the day. After no one there even knowing what the part was they did at least connect me to JEFF via three way call. It toke me 1 hour 15 minutes to finally get the only guy that knows this product from CM. Jeff advised me there is no replacement part available nor a part number available. He advised me to just let it leak and wait for him to get me one. Well the next evening when we got home from my sons 16th birthday dinner we found that the vacuum breaker blew out completely flooding our home, floor, open cell foam insulation with major property damage from a part that CM claimed does not exist in their system.
    Once I explained this via email it toke me 10 days to get the part in which we are guaranteed next day part delivery for geo elite dealers. In the mean time CM really could care less that my unit was tripping my main breaker, that we were down without hot water over the holiday. Nor did they try to help solve our issues.
    I had to go to LOWES and buy a new water heater to use for a temporary until we got the replacement part. So when they sent me they replacement part they didnt send it with the factory teflon gasket and the new part leaked. I reminded JEFF during the training that they didnt want us to pipe dope the connection on the top of the water heater so that we would use the factory teflon gaskets and we need a new one everytime we reconnect to the water heater. So guess what they didnt send the gasket and my gasket leaked. Again I was told by CM the part doesnt exist and it cant be ordered. So the end result is I had to go to my local RHEEM distrubtor to order it direct from MARATHON at my expense and 3 weeks later.
    I have a very tight application and have had to swap out my water heaters at least 4 times because of this unorganized mess.
    Since I disabled the on demand hot water the system is doing a great job of heating the space with just an occasional breaker tripping.
    How can you sell such a product with such a poor infrastructure.
    I challenge anyone to call CM and ask anyone in that company one technical question about the Trilogy system except for JEFF and you will start seeing what we GEO ELITE dealers paid so much money to receive first hand.
    And now that this has happened to me I am only thinking how I would be explaining this to a pissed off customer looking for $45,000 refunded to them because of the 100% satisfaction guarantee.
    Truthfully we just cant continue to offer such a product from such a poor company.
  5. sodajerk

    sodajerk Member

    That does sound pretty bad. I thought the refund was backed by climatemaster?

    I just got a reply from the first person I quoted above. He has had the system installed for over 1.5 years. No issues so far. He seems pretty happy with it.
  6. Yes CM will be responsible for the refund but it still makes you and your company look very bad.
    I believe in the unit just not CM. Either way if this would have happened to one of my customers it would have been a complete nightmare. We have a very tight community that has very high standards so if something like this were to happen in our community the word would spread like wild fire with potential severe repercussions
    Things happen for a reason and we truly believe there are better products and companies to do business with.
    We have been selling CM for 10+ years, for us to notice their market share shrink and shrink and shrink which should have been the writing on the wall.
    Plus we didn't pay our hard earned money to receive this kind of service when we were guaranteed the exact opposite when we agreed to become a geo elite dealer.
    After all what good is it to sell the most energy efficient unit on the planet when you can't even help service nor find replacement parts on a demand basis.
    In fact with their don't care attitude they may not exist in another 3-5 years. As I hear that LSB wants out.
    A lot of refunds already being given can potentially put them down and out.
    We were guaranteed tech support within 5 minutes and not hours or even days,
    This is exactly why we were testing the entire process with both companies and their flagship products so that we can go all in with the right company. CM has finally failed the test after all these years.
  7. sodajerk

    sodajerk Member

    Have any of the other CM dealers here had significant issues with CM or are you generally happy with how them? The general advice on this forum is to care about who is installing the equipment not who makes it, but geothermal spirits post would seem to go against this general wisdom.
  8. Actually we truly only care about our customers needs. That's why we care so much about our product that we deliver to our customers and warranty. When you offer your customers the premium products they pay for, then you should have good faith in the manufacturer to send you a complete unit with the infrastructure to support so.
    I think this forum is great to show tradesman and homeowners alike your experiences from different manufacturers and job sites so that we can all get a feel and learn as to how our industry is growing in the right or wrong direction. And if a company or product is providing inferior services or products then why shouldn't it be discussed on this forum
    I didn't start this to bash CM I am just stating facts about our experience with them.
    Sorry it isn't what you want to hear and please don't say I didn't warn you about CM and the trilogy system.
    I have been a die hard dealer for them for a long time so this experience has really disappointed us as well
    Good luck in your TRILOGY endeavor
  9. there is a reason the 7 series are all over this forum and only a few TRILOGY systems
    Hopefully that tells you something there
    I only wish I would have seen it earlier before I spent $$,000 on this POS
    Hopefully your or your friend won't do the same.
  10. sodajerk

    sodajerk Member

    Well. My parents sent me updated photos of the construction. The Trilogy 45 is already in the basement hooke to the ductwork and the water heater is there too. They had 6 200-foot bores drilled last week. They aren't planning to move in until June or July so I probably won't be able to provide any insights on how the trilogy is running until then. I'll try to post how it's working out though over the summer and next winter.
  11. I hope the best for them. Good luck.
  12. AMI Contracting

    AMI Contracting A nice Van Morrison song Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Lets begin with CM targeting their dealers that move volume to pay for a class for the Trilogy system, to then sell you the only access to this groundbreaking product for $1800 at this class to become a GEOELITE dealer.

    That was a deal breaker for me. Spend 7 figures on their products and they solicit a fee for being an "elite" dealer? No thanks.
  13. sodajerk

    sodajerk Member

    I'm wondering why geothermal spirits and docjensee said there is a lack of zoning equipment for the trilogy 45. My parents said their installer is putting in a zoned system with electronic dampers with their trilogy. Is the installer misinformed or making a mistake or do you just mean that climatemaster does not offer their own solution for zoning like waterfurnace does with the 7 series?

  14. docjenser

    docjenser Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    CM does not have their own zoning system for the variable speed technology. WF does, which is integrated with the variable speed technology. Yes, you can (theoretically ) put in a 3rd party controller, such as honeywell, but it cannot control the variable compressor speed. You parents' installer might underestimate the need to control the variable speed compressor.
    How many zones will your parents have?
  15. sodajerk

    sodajerk Member

    My father said there would be 3 zones. One each for the finished basement, first floor and second floor.mi was thinking the most likely use case would be to close off the basement vents when they aren't down there, but I do not know what the installers thoughts were on it.
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2016
  16. docjenser

    docjenser Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    So how do they plan to slow down the fan and the compressor when only the smallest zone is calling?
    And then the basement would be calling for heat and the vents are closed. Then the heat pump cannot get rid of the heat. All bad scenarios.You guys and your installer need some help.
    Mark Custis likes this.
  17. Mark Custis

    Mark Custis Not soon. Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Most installers do not think. The company the installer works for had better have some idea about how to heat and cool a home. They need know how.

    Doc and I agree.

    I am sure we would use different equipment

  18. sodajerk

    sodajerk Member

    I'll try to get the answer for you from the installer. The original plan was to use the original quote was for a tranquillity system with 3 zones. My dad asked for the trilogy instead. I don't know for sure, but I have a feeling the installer then did not think through the fact that the trilogy would cause an issue with zones. I know they've already installed the electronic dampers but nothing is hooked up yet.

    Here are a couple of my less than ideal non-expert ideas of how options for how things would operate.

    Would it be possible to disable the temp sensor for the basement when you closed off the zone? I don't even know if this is an option and even if it is it would probably be deep in the settings menu or something and be annoying to set off and on. But I think this would pretty much resolve the issues you talk about.

    The other less than ideal option I can think of is just always leave all the zones on and just pray Climatemaster offers their own solution that could be installed once it is out. Then maybe you would just need to add their controller since the rest of the system was already installed. I realize you would probably have wasted money on the 3rs party zone controller since it was never used.

    Does anyone know if Climatemaster is working on a zoning system for the trilogy 45?
  19. Mark Custis

    Mark Custis Not soon. Industry Professional Forum Leader


    Go look at Arzel Zoning Tech here in Cleveland. I can teach you to install it by phone. Great summer job. Close to home? Stephanie can teach you to design the arzel system in about four hours.

  20. sodajerk

    sodajerk Member

    Sorry, Mark. I meant the person that designed the system. I live outside the country and do not know if the people installing the system and the person that designed it are the same. I do know the original quote early on in the process was for a tranquility system with 3 zones. My father said he wanted the trilogy 45. The company said that would be fine. I do not know how much reworking of the original system design they changed from that point, but I became aware that it still had zones after I emailed my father saying i didn't think there was any way to have a zoned system with the trilogy 45.
    Mark Custis likes this.

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