Arizona Starting to regret buying Climate Master TZ22 - no support

Discussion in 'Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by kevgibson, Jan 5, 2015.

  1. kevgibson

    kevgibson Member

    So in March 2013 I had a climate master TZ22 installed by a company operating out of Show Low Arizona which is 16 miles from me in Snowflake. It worked great through the summer but is not giving problems and the company that installed it has gone out of operations. The local HVAC guys tell me they cant fix it. Climate Master's nearest certified guys are 3.5 hours away in Pheonix!!!

    So the system starts up and would occasionally lock out and the thermostat would show 'waiting for equipment' then after a while it would start and produce hot air. This has become more frequent and now its doesn't heat at all. The fan starts blowing, the outlet air is not hotter than the input. Then is locks out.

    The DXM2 Controls board shows a green light and flashing red. When I hit the test button the green flashes and the red light gives 10 flashes and pause. From the manual I gather this is an ECM Blower fault. (Whatever that is)??

    Is this some thing that a local HVAC guy could fix or am I going to face a $1,000 visit from Phoenix?

    Any and all help highly appreciated.
  2. mtrentw

    mtrentw Active Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Do you have any additional info you can provide to assist others with diagnosis. Are there temperature probes on your incoming and outgoing water supply.
    Does the fault code clear with a basic reset with power off at the breaker and back on.
    Does the blower work fine continuously if you put just the fan on?
  3. Mark Custis

    Mark Custis Not soon. Industry Professional Forum Leader

    For $1,000.00 I'll come fix it from Cleveland, OH.

    Tell me what Trent wants to know and I might be able to fix it by phone. Service call would be the same. LOL.

    Hey Trent how are You and Yours?

  4. kevgibson

    kevgibson Member

    Hi Guys,
    So it I pull the breaker and replace it the system resets and there's no fault code.

    I did this and then from the thermostat set the fan running. It ran for like 45mins no error.

    After 45 mins the temp had dropped and the unit went to 'heat on' it ran for perhaps 2 mins got the output air temp to like 70 take from house was 61. Then it locked out. Here's a difference...when I hit the test button it flashed a code 13

    According to my manual this is an 'Internal Flow Center Fault' which I gather is about the ground loop pumps?

    I may have temperature probe ability. I think I saw the installer taking water temps. I have included a pic of the fittings where he would do that. He also left a temperature probe , which is in the pic just above the pipe fittings. Are thses fittings what your talking about? How do I use them?

    Thks Kev

    hvac 001.JPG
  5. dgbair

    dgbair Just a hobby Forum Leader

    Yes they are.. they are called Pete's ports. I always like to use a little water proof grease on the port, then you just insert the probe in the port with the unit running and you can get the entering and leaving water temps. (EWT/LWT).
    Water pressure numbers would be good to know as well. (but of course you need a different gauge for that, do you have that one as well?)
  6. crispE

    crispE New Member

    I would check the dxm board and double check all dip switches and jumpers. A fault code 10 is default if the board is in test mode.

    I doubt that to be the problem.

    Also a list of:
    DIP S1.1-S1.8
    DIP S2.1-S2.8
    DIP S3.1-S3.3

  7. kevgibson

    kevgibson Member

    OK I have to go into town tomorrow (Wednesday) and i'll get some grease and try to find an appropriate pressure gauge. Is there some standard thread or something which lets me attached to the water pressure points. I see the pressure tapings, and they show on the pic also, just above the probe and lower just above the lower Pete's Port (Look I learned a new name!)
  8. dgbair

    dgbair Just a hobby Forum Leader

  9. kevgibson

    kevgibson Member

    So I ran the system this morning an took some temperatures. The system ran for about 5mins before locking out. at that time the water in temp showed 45.4F and out was 51.6. Now im calling the IN and OUT by the labels on the system. So on this basis it would suggest heat is been added to the water. In heating mode shouldn't this be the other way around....OR does the flow change direction between heating and cooling and the labels are for cooling???? The WR IN label is on the lower pipe in the pic above.

    The system failed again with a flash code of 13 . Going out soon will look for a pressure gauge.
  10. kevgibson

    kevgibson Member

    Couldn't get a probe type pressure gauge locally. My system has a water pressure in and out valve that look just like a tyre valve. When I use a digital tyre gauge on it as its running I get 3,0 psi on water in , but cant register a pressure on water out.

    I'm going to flagstaff and Sedona tomorrow I'll try for a new gauge then.

    In mean time anyone any idea what causes a code 13 fault = 'Internal Flow Center Fault'
    As you may have see I'm now getting code 13...
    DIP S1 are all On
    DIP S2 are all On
    DIP S3 Are all Off
    Jw1 is closed
    JW3 is opened (clipped) I'm running with antifreeze.
    A0-1 there is no prongs , its flush with the board
    A0- 2 the 0-10V is jumpered

    No settings have been changed since installation an the system worked fine last winter and thru November into December.

    The S3.1 default according to the manual is ON=Communicating Master Device
    Mine is OFF=Communicating Slave Device
    I'm not sure why but this may have something to do with the fact that my thermostat controls the Geothermal and a backup propane furnace...which is why we are not presently freezing to death :)
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2015
  11. mtrentw

    mtrentw Active Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Your flow is backwards. With the internal flow center and your flow reversed, it may be a function of the control board thinking that you have no water flow and shutting down on safety. (Input from one of the pros please)
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2015
  12. mtrentw

    mtrentw Active Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Just grabbed below from Climatemaster. It would seem that if the IFC is trying to maintain a proper delta T and it is going backwards, it must be giving the control board conniptions.

    Internal Flow Center [IFC] Operation – When the
    DXM2 is confi gured to operate the variable speed
    pump in the internal fl ow controller, the pump will be
    directly controlled by the DXM2. For controlling the
    variable speed pump, the DXM2 monitors the entering
    water temperature, leaving water temperature, pump
    feedback signal, and the ambient pump temperature.
    The pump is controlled in the following way:
    a) Maintain the appropriate temperature difference
    across the water coil (EWT–LWT for heating, LWT–
    EWT for cooling).
    b) Maintain the leaving water temperature below the
    appropriate Maximum Heating LWT and above the
    Minimum Cooling LWT limits.
    c) Limit the pump speed at elevated ambient
    operating conditions to protect the internal fl ow
  13. dgbair

    dgbair Just a hobby Forum Leader

    Seems like you have flow problems to say the least.... at least everything is pointing in the same direction.
    I'm guessing the reason your LWT > EWT is because you have no water flow.
    You have almost zero pressure in your loops.... not a good thing, what happened to it? (I'm assuming you have a pressurize loop system) I have not read up on the TZ series, hopefully a pro will chime in.
    13 fault = 'Internal Flow Center Fault' - also is saying something is wrong with the flow.... it's most likely detecting the LWT > EWT and it throwing the fault.

    Do you have a volt/amp meter? I would start by looking voltage going to the internal cirulator pump... if you having voltage, how many amps is it pulling? These pumps also like to have pressure in the loop or else they won't do any useful work.
    (When looking for a pressure gauge needle, those air needles you use to inflate athletic balls work well)
  14. dgbair

    dgbair Just a hobby Forum Leader

    Ok, I found the TZ doc on the climate master web site... seem like it does have standard schrader ports for taking the pressure readings. It also states that the loop pressure should be between 50 and 75 psi.

    If you had a air needle you could recharge the loop via the Pete's port. You just need to be careful to not introduce any air into the loop. A short hose attached to a faucet and the inflation needle is all that is needed. Bleed ALL the air out of the hose and then with the water still running insert it into the Pete's port. The water pressure from the house will normally get you into a acceptable range. (20-30 psi should be plenty)

    If you are lucky that will clear up the 13 fault... then you need to keep a close eye on the water pressure to see what happens. ie do you have leak or was the system just not charged correctly.
  15. kevgibson

    kevgibson Member

    hvac 002.JPG First thanks for the feed back.
    I don't think my closed ground loop is meant to be pressurized when not in use - I could be way off - I base this on the diagrams in my manual. The open loop shows a pressure tank. I have solar hot water system it has a similar membrane pressure tank. However the diagram of the closed ground loop shows no such tank.

    I do wonder about air in the sytem. When first installed there were problems and the installer had to come out 3 or 4 times and flush the loop. He would connect 2 hoses to openings in the front of the pumps. These would go into a bucket of water/glycol and he could run the pumps independently and presumably flush any air from the system.
  16. kevgibson

    kevgibson Member

    hvac 001.JPG
    So these are my loop pumps. I cant find any documentation on them in the paper work with my system. I presume if they are connected the wrong way around , reconnection will loose fluid and need a loop fill and flush. That's beyond me.

    So I went to Climate Master site yesterday and got the address an email of the nearest and only Arizona agent. He replied telling me he no longer works with Climate Master due to their poor customer and agent support!!
  17. dgbair

    dgbair Just a hobby Forum Leader

    Kev, that is a closed loop pressurized setup... The QT flow center would be a non-pressurized system.

    "he could run the pumps independently and presumably flush any air from the system" - no flush cart? He just tried to used the pumps on the pump paks to flush the loops?

    Do you have a inside manifold with shutoff values for each loop?

    How many loops do you have? How long is each loop?

    How many tons is the system? (model number of the system)
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2015
  18. kevgibson

    kevgibson Member

    Model Number TZ060AGD25BLTS
    Sorry I thought id said it was closed loop.
    As I recall theres like 800ft of pipe in 200ft of trench. Its looped at 8ft and 10 ft depth.
    I believe its one long loop.

    flush cart? In the above pic you can see 2 blank outlets above the pumps. Theses were connected to hoses which went down into a bucket full of water and gycol.

    Theres no manifold out side the unit, inside the garage. Just what you see in the pic.

    I had a closer look at the pumps yesterday. Theres arrows below the pointing down which is connected to the water in.
  19. kevgibson

    kevgibson Member

    the saga of getting support out here continues. Using the Climate Master web site showed one dealer in Phoenix who as I mentioned before no longer works with Climate Master. Next nearest were 2 companies in Albuquerque , 4hrs away. One no loner services them , due to lack of cutomer support. The other I could not get an answer from.
    I called Climate Master for help, the 'front desk' told me theyd have some one from the corporate office call me. That hasn't happened.
  20. Tamar

    Tamar Member Forum Leader

    Hey, everyone, correct me if I'm wrong, but if this is installation error, not equipment malfunction, then kevgibson doesn't need a Climatemaster dealer, he needs a local geothermal contractor, no matter what brand they install. In that case, he could check (for example) the WaterFurnace website and see if there's a geopro dealer in the area.....

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