Southeast PA Quote

Discussion in 'Quotes and Proposals' started by JFLame, Sep 17, 2012.

  1. jrh

    jrh Member

    $35k. For a 4 ton zoned system with a vertical exchanger is what you would pay in my area(suburbs north of NYC). No less. So IMO it's a fair price.
     
  2. JFLame

    JFLame Member

    I just had another firm come for an estimate. He's also a Waterfurnace dealer (and a very large one at that), and after a full analysis of the house and everything I want, his "ballpark" figure is $25-27k. Detailed analysis of course is to follow to confirm or deny that, but he broke it down like this:

    Drilling/loop: $8k for 4-ton.
    Furnace/DSH/Water heater: $14k
    Zoning: ~$4k for 4 zones, mostly duct work expense. He's not sure if he'll go with a Honeywell or Intellizone controller yet, he needs to check a few things.

    So around $26k. I'm hoping his detailed bid doesn't shoot this down because if this is what he comes back with I'm sold.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2012
  3. Palace GeoThermal

    Palace GeoThermal Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Hope it works out for you.
     
  4. Jamesck

    Jamesck Member

    You will love the system if it gets put in correctly. I hope it works out for you!
     
  5. Calladrilling

    Calladrilling Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    $2000.00 /ton drilling with air rotary in rock, 1"loops, 1 1/4" manifolds, trencher into house, connected to flow center and purged is a nice price! Just don't get to excited just yet, cause he is ball parking the pricing. And more then likely he is ball parking the pricing from a sub-contracted well drilling firm he has to hire out this work to. That drilling price may rise back up another $1000-$3000 depending on the drilling requirements and scope of work to be performed..
     
  6. JFLame

    JFLame Member

    I was specific with him on what was in that $8000 since I thought it was quite a nice price as well. It only gets the piping into the basement, no connection from there. So it's not exactly what you're thinking or what some of the other numbers quoted here included. The rest of the cost is in the $14k, but no matter, the overall price is where it needs to be.

    And yes, I'm holding out for the actual estimate, as nothing is final yet.
     
  7. Calladrilling

    Calladrilling Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    After reading my own post....it may have come across a bit smartass-ish. It was not meant to be!
    I have talked to a few loop contractors from that area and have been told my price is very good compared to theirs, and Im not as low as $2000/ton.
    It may not be to far off concidering they are only bidding on 160'/ton,Not doing inside piping,Purging, or adding antifreeze.
     
  8. docjenser

    docjenser Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    I just don't see how he can do 4 zones well with the Honeywell. You need the Intellizone for that since you can splice into the fan harness and slow down the blower. As a large WF dealer, he should know that.
     
  9. JFLame

    JFLame Member

    I had a quick correspondence on this tonight. He's suggesting going down to 3 zones (upstairs, downstairs, basement) instead of 4 (two upstairs, downstairs, and basement), since splitting the upstairs into 2 zones would leave one of the zones sized below 25% of the house, which I guess is a guideline for the Intellizone. So at this point he's looking to go with the Intellizone and a 3 zone setup.

    Hopefully he has he detailed calculations and pricing ready tomorrow.
     
  10. signal13

    signal13 New Member

    I also live in SE PA. We are in the process of building our new home and have had 3 geothermal estimates. We are having two 4-ton Waterfurnace (NDV049 in basement and NDZ049 Envision Split upstairs) Each will have 15kw electric resistance backup heaters. Drilling of 4 wells for 8 tons of loop w/80 ft of casing. One desuperheater including a Marathon 85 gallon storage tank. All brand new fiberglass ductwork included. Blower door test included. 4 zones with Intellizone thermostats. All three estimates have ranged from $42k-45k. We settled on the contractor who wants $44k because we think he's the best installer and that's probably the most important thing to me. I priced a similar system about 5 years ago just before the federal tax credit was available and got estimates in the 27-28k range. Either everything got very expensive in 5 years or everybody wants a piece of my 30% tax credit. I think you're guy may be a tad high but he's not way off the mark :rolleyes:
     
  11. engineer

    engineer Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Intellizone for 3+ zones - hands down.

    Honeywell has a REALLY annoying habit of kicking a 4 zone system into high stage if just 2 zones are calling. If the two calling zones are small, operating in high stage creates wind tunnel air flow conditions and miserably low efficiency.

    Honeywell's problem boils down to " 1 %" in other words the difference between kicking a system into high stage based on 50 (vs 51) percent of zones calling. That feature alone was such a huge problem for me that I yanked a Honeywell and retrofitted an Intellizone onto a system that...wait for it...was comprised of a TRANE (not Waterfurnace) system.

    Intellizone, while also annoyingly rudimentary in re humidity control, both allows scaling zones 25-45-70%, and pays heed to the level of call from individual zone thermostats. A Y1 call is allocated less than a Y2, and a Y2 is allocated less than a Y3 (heating only)

    Intellizone docs suggest smallest zone accept no less than 25% of system nominal airflow. That is typically not a major limitation, but in the case of a particularly small zone it can be worked around by providing a combination of somewhat oversized ductwork to the small zone combined with "cracking" (keep largest zone damper always a little bit open)

    In no case do I advocate or install bypass dampers to accommodate solo small zone calls.
     
  12. JFLame

    JFLame Member

    An update:

    The second guy didn't come in at $26k as I was hoping. He claims a large duct work cost and his final number came closer to about $32k. Still cheaper than the first guy. I got a loose "phone quote" from another Waterfurnace dealer and his breakdown put him at around the $30k mark as well. So it seems that's the going rate for a 4-ton Waterfurnace system in my area.

    I had another fella out on Tuesday, he's a Carrier dealer, and seemed to have a boatload of know-how about zoning. He said he has several options, including a zoning system that would put zone dampers in every supply line instead of just zoning the main supplies. I believe he said it was the Carrier Infinity Zoning system or something like that. It's supposed to be a "smart" system that figures out the load for each zone and manages it well. I don't have more details than that. I'm going to sit down with him Tuesday to discuss specifics. I wanted to get at least one non-Waterfurance quote just to see where the competition stacks up.
     
  13. jrh

    jrh Member

    I am not familiar with the zoning system, it sounds interesting. The Carrier GSHP's are made by ClimateMaster. They are quality units.
     
  14. engineer

    engineer Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Carrier's Infinity is an excellent zoning system, but, to my knowledge, it has not yet been applied to geo.
     
  15. jrh

    jrh Member

    Jflame, I clipped this quote of yours from another thread

    "As a consumer, I would find it much more helpful if those of you who are in the know could at the least provide some data on what pricing looks like in your own areas. Folks are smart enough to know that there are variables that affect prices, and you can caveat with that.

    It's not like pricing is some grand secret. People tell their friends and neighbors all the time what things cost, so why hold back?

    I would go as far as to say you guys are doing a disservice to your industry by holding back this information."

    I am not sure what you are talking about. I am one of the closest in distance to you, and I offered a specific price of a total system in my area. Calladrilling also offered you specifics about what he would charge.

    If you thanked me for my input, I must have missed it.
     
  16. JFLame

    JFLame Member

    Jrh,

    Your input was helpful, and I would like to thank you for it.

    Please don't take my comments personally. My folly was making that comment in too general of a sense, as there are some helpful folks on here that have been willing to share some pricing information.
     
  17. gbig2

    gbig2 New Member

    Sorry to bump up such an old post, but I'm trying to get some info to JFLame and there was someone else in the SE PA area asking about estimates on this thread.

    I'm in between Allentown and Reading, PA area. I just recently had a 3 ton Bosch system with 525 feet bore, 1050 feet loop, with desuperheater installed for about $17,000 before tax credits. Down to about $11,000 after tax credits and electric company rebate. Company I used has done 4000 installs since 1980. Highly recommend. They do whole job, drilling, trenching, hvac. Not sure if I'm allowed to mention the company, so if either SE PA guy wants more info, PM me.

    Thanks
     
  18. camicia

    camicia New Member

    Been a while since the last post, but gbig2 and JFLame, I'd be interested in knowing who you went with. (I cannot figure out how to send a message...)
     

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