Slinky bed design

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Lake House, Jan 1, 2009.

  1. gabby

    gabby Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Yes...the straight line is what requires the reverse header...a circle does not, all loops are equidistant from the center.:)

    If you do it any other way than a circle, equilaterial triangle or square, you will need a reverse header arrangement, subfields, or main field as you stated.
     
  2. Mark Custis

    Mark Custis Not soon. Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Gabby

    or use a balanced manifold.

    Reverse return is a pain in the ass. It works, but I like to "SEE" the flow.
     
  3. geoloop

    geoloop Member

    header

    without doing the reducing header design it makes it very difficult to properly flush the loop.
     
  4. gabby

    gabby Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Have a pic of a balanced manifold? I think I know what it is if it follows suit with a steam balance manifold for process steam. There are some diciplines that can't use an ignitable source so they use steam as the "cooking agent" and process water jackets to maintain temperature. Multiple reactors running the same chemical process have to be balanced the same as if you are running a single reaction...ergo, a balanced manifold to control volume/pressure/ and to some degree temperature.
    These are done with valving bodies, not reduction in pipe size. If it looks the same or operates the same, then I know what you are referring to even if I've never seen one.
     
  5. Mark Custis

    Mark Custis Not soon. Industry Professional Forum Leader

    My dear fellow Buckeye, Gabby

    You have not looked at all of the stuff in the rehau link.

    When we do a pond loop we build a radiant floor in the pond and use a manifold to do the work. We have the manifold in a sump near the pond and pump to the ghp with big pipe.

    It is easy to purge each loop one at a time by closing the actuators to the rest of the loop field. I mentioned this design to the Rehau boys at a meeting here in Cleveland about three weeks before the published the book I linked you to. They all turned green, but it could have been bad beer.

    No lawyers on either side yet. They have more money.

    The last reverse return I did worked, TG. It was on a staple-up floor with un-drillable lam headers.
     
  6. gabby

    gabby Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    If all loops have the same resistance, whether through a reducing header or any other means I don't see a problem with flushing the loops. I don't think I understand what you are saying, or you are saying the same thing in a different way...LOL

    It depends on the medium used as a liquid, but generally the best control is using a globe valve, especially if the medium you are trying to control has different viscosities. You can control steam with a gate valve, but it is not easy and the pressure has to be constant, or nearly constant. Gate valves are best for on/off applications. Proportioning valves are good as long as there is a uniformity maintained, be it temperature, pressure, viscosity, etc.
    Reversing manifolds is probably one of the cheapest reliable systems out there for mass production. That doesn't mean it's the best...but close enough for government work.:D
     
  7. Mark Custis

    Mark Custis Not soon. Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Hydronics is an art form

    As the folks at the wall.

    I have stable, yet frozen ground here in Lorain County, Ohio.
     
  8. gabby

    gabby Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Mark

    There is a lot of stuff in that link..most of it over my head because of the lingo, abbreviations, etc.

    It is definitely worth the read, but I have to read slowly to decipher what is being said. I do remember the valve manifold.
     
  9. Mark Custis

    Mark Custis Not soon. Industry Professional Forum Leader

    My dear feind,

    This is an addiction. If taken by any dirrection one can not get enough knowledge.

    I like the Rehau stuff, they think like I do.

    I would be putting heat collectors in and under the two TX houses, expanding dirt be damned.

    I would put loops in the footers, the foundation, under the driveway wherever I could.

    You are committed to geo, I tip my beer. I do comfort. I am leaning towards what Mr. Bean has been saying about radiant. Indoor Environmental Quality :: Radiant Based HVAC :: Healthy Heating

    Ohio and Texas are a bit far apart, but I like your thinking and will continue to butt in until told to stop.

    OU '71.
     
  10. gabby

    gabby Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    There is nothing wrong with being passionate about something and enhancing your knowledge to the point that the student becomes the teacher. It is as it should be.

    OSU'63---USAF 65-69---AU'80.
     
  11. Mark Custis

    Mark Custis Not soon. Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Here is a manifold

    Note the flow meters and balancing valves.
     
  12. gabby

    gabby Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Looks like the picture in the geo groundloops pdf at Rehau, which looks like the Pex manifolds for residential water...minus the flow meters.
    There are a lot of pdf files on that site and their movies are not very short (32meg). I will say this, impressive radiant site.

    I wish there was a comparison between the radiant qualities of Pex-a to HDPE pipe. Something like 1" Pex-a 500' is equivalent to 1" HDPE 600', rather than 600' (two loops in a 5" 300' well) has a 20% increase in thermal transfer.
     
  13. Mark Custis

    Mark Custis Not soon. Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Gabby

    Same manifold. I just put up the first picture I came upon in the files.

    It works.

    I think Caleffe who sold me the manifold makes them for Rehau.

    My point is using such a manifold, one could put loops everywhere and anywhere and gain btuh.

    The magic number is what will the ground give up to the pipe. No one knows what that is until the system is commissioned.
     

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