Significant frost heave from horizontal loops

Discussion in 'Geothermal Loops' started by Rogero, Mar 27, 2017.

  1. waterpirate

    waterpirate Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Hi and welcome!
    While your conclusions make sense to you, they do not to us. In the absence of design data for residential projects we follow best practices. None seem to have been followed here. Too much pumping power consumed, loops too shallow, loops to close together, all smack of a botched install. The other sticking point is that a system should have been designed to meet the current load, not the load going forward. Telling a homeowner to adjust their lifestyle to meet the capacity of a struggling system is also not best practice.

    Read some more here and get up to speed and feel free to join the conversation going forward.
    Eric
     
  2. geoxne

    geoxne Active Member Forum Leader

    lugster
    EWT and LWT sensors are typically placed inside close to the geo unit not in the ground. When the unit is not running the sensor reading will go to the ambient temperature of the space around it. Thus readings when the unit is NOT running should be disregarded.
     
  3. Rogero

    Rogero New Member

    Hello Lugster,
    to clarify some of your questions, my house is a one story rambler over a crawlspace. The remodeled half of the house (all except bedrooms) have foamed walls in standard 2x4 cavities. The entire underside of the attic and sidewalls are also foamed to r36 at least creating a conditioned space in the attic. The underside of the subfloor in the crawlspace is also entirely sealed with foam. So, the only parts of the house missing insulation are the walls in the bedrooms and bathrooms. I never change my thermostat from 67 in the winter, so not trying to heat the house up that much.

    Another question for the readers of the thread. I have the AUX heater installed and have a question on the wiring. The sticker on the heating unit says copper wire only. This is not an UL sticker, just a climatemaster sticker. The fittings say AL9CU which indicates Aluminum or copper are acceptable. Any reason why AL wiring would not work? Copper is about 3 times more expensive.

    Roger
     
  4. docjenser

    docjenser Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    I think you are absolutely correct...... you are not in this business and ignorant!
    Anyone who looks at that loop field, and has ever installed a system, knows that this shallow loop cannot work, and will result in the symptoms described here. A loop field resulting in mid 20s EWT in the winter and spiking to 112 F in the summer is simply not performing, and if buried a couple feet down will do exactly that.

    Indeed...Good Day!
     
  5. lugster

    lugster New Member

    Do what the the manufacturer states and use copper, you will sleep better. AL9CU is the rating for the connector not the appliance. Why Climatemater used them, I don't know, but if a fire happens climatemaster just covered their butt if you used AL. Just a small nick on a AL strand can be a meltdown waiting to happen. The insurance investigator may ask, "any electrical work done lately," and will review all permit pulled to see it they can pin the blame on a contractor, it's there job. If you do it without a permit/inspection and find your AL wire job caused the meltdown you may face a challenge winning a claim. During my life one of my many jobs was the maintenance electrician at Kd manitou in waco tx pulling miles of wire from a 3000 amp 440 v 3 phase distribution center for production needs. Don't use AL.




    Indeed...Good Day![/QUOTE]
     
  6. moey

    moey Member

    You may have been ok if they actually dug them 4 ft deep from the pictures it looks like your about 2 ft deep. Im only 5 ft deep in mid coast maine probably colder then your location and Ive never seen incoming temps below 30F.
     
  7. lugster

    lugster New Member

     
  8. lugster

    lugster New Member

    Thank you for restating what I've already claimed. It's a pleasure to receive a reply from the forum leader and will remind you "ignorant" doesn't mean stupid. I means one is unfamiliar and uneducated in a subject and I can assure you I'm not stupid. I'm someone who can learn and reason without bias or delusions of grandeur. I'll guess you're very good installing geothermal systems and will value your expertise for future analysis. yep.

    Indeed...Good Day![/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
     
  9. moey

    moey Member

    Theres a lot of chest thumping that goes on in this forum. Free advice has a cost that has always been the way I looked at it.
     

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