"Shallow rock" affects vertical loop's capacity to heat?

Tamar, you might want to google "solar thermal storage for geothermal". There are test runs further north where those summer projects, despit putting billions of summer BTUs in the ground via solar thermal panel, did not work. Your DSH contributions in minimal (tiny) in comparision. Can't do it myself, internet is sketchy in the part of the world I am right now.

 

How many rounds is a prize fight? This just keeps getting better.

The MN Atty General got the latest response from my contractor today. Here is just one choice quote that I suspect will have a few jaws dropping here:

<Tamar> insists that XXX is obligated to provide a geothermal system that covers approximately 98% of the heating costs of her residence. In support of her insistence, <Tamar> points to a report generated by GeoDesigner software....reliance on the estimates set forth in the....report is misplaced.....the primary purpose of the report was to assist XXX in designing the loop field.

Hahahahahahahahhahahahahahahah

 

Hahahahahahahahhahahahahahahah from me as well

 

The Dog ate my home work!!! Haha

 

And didn't they admit that the loop is not designed correctly, namely it cannot support the 8 tons for for both heatpumps.

 

Why, yes they did! If not in those exact words, then it can be inferred by their suggestion that I choose whether the 5 ton or 3 ton should provide my heat, and by claiming that we don't have enough real estate to install enough loop to provide 100% of our heat. Welcome back, Doc! I bet the snow was a bit of a shock (assuming you're back in NY now).

 

No, it was a refreshing breeze, after sitting in a tent in the Saudi dessert for a while. It certainly re-opens your eyes on carbonhydrons. The concern is just reiniterated, namely that they have no idea about the geothermal concept or how to make your system operate efficient.

 

I sat in a tent in Saudi for more than a little while
I had a lap top crash once that took out many of my load calcs and geo designs as well. I did have a few customers that had to mail me a copy.......It turned out the back up drive I used preserved the geo design program but not the customer files within.
We do so many calcs that I was not in the habit of making a hard copy for all.
Just saying, I suppose the dog could eat the homework.
I am more concerned that they might suggest dubious origin of your exhibit A

 

Joe are you saying they will accuse me of making it up?
1. I didn't
2. Their initial proposal lists our yearly geothermal cost @ $1507 vs current equipment cost of $3050. numbers which exactly match the GeoDesigner report that I reference (which lists the 98% coverage).
3. Their company name is at the top of every sheet and on the cover page.

 

By the way, now that I have GeoDesigner software installed on my laptop. I have run projects both with and without air conditioning. The funny thing (even though I was told by someone from ClimateMaster that the program counts on there being heat rejected into the ground in the summer), the loop needed and the % coverage do not change if my cooling load is 38K or 1K (you can't leave it blank and the lowest number is will accept is 1K).

 

Tamar:

Hang in there my friend. Please note that the just us system if fixed in favor of the side with the biggest eraser.

Joe's wry sense of irony does not always come through when he types. I am sure he was not being accusatory.

As I am sure you are learning spread sheet programs do not make up for common sense and experience. As Joe is fond of saying GIGO.

Let me know if I can lend a hand.

Mark

 

That is the point. The impact of heat injection into a vertical residential loopfield, in heat dominated climate, is insignificant. Especially when the loopfield consists only of 6 boreholes, and only 2 rows. On larger commercial loopfields, heat transfer from the surrounding ground is impacted by other bores, thus the "inside bores" do not recharge as good as the outer bores. Thus more attention has to be paid to the loads and loopfield design, and the load balance. But each one of your bores is on the edge of the loopfield. Nothing which would be impacted by the desuperheater shut down or disconnection.
Be also aware that the geodesigner is a very simply tool which does not account for many of the variable in the physics of heat transfer, no software does. It is meant to be in the ballpark, with some safety margins. It is free from Climatemaster to allow more contractors to come up with a design which will always work, assuming you do everything else correct. But it assumes that you make everything else correct, like sizing the pipe correctly for the flow you need….

 

Thanks Doc:

Some times German is better than English. Well said. I still have shared DNA in Baden-Baden.

Mark

 

I don't think they will say you made it up Tamar and we certainly know you didn't but don't take anything for granted.

 

My other point is valid as well. It is possible they simply lost the file.

 

They did lose the file, but I did not lose the hard copy they gave me in 2010. I've scanned it and provided it back to them several times in the past 12 months. They would have a very hard time challenging it's authenticity now that they've argued about what it represents and how it can/should be used.

 

Just wanted to share my good news! My loopfield supports a 7 ton WF 5 series. We even made it through the below zero temps with -30 windchill last week, and the loop has recovered nicely.

 

nice!!!

 

Hurray!!!!

 

I knew it would support the load, all along.

I love it when a plan come together.

Mark