Retrofit Standing Column Well, what systems did you replace?

Discussion in 'Standing Column Well (SCW)' started by stevecaz, Jun 11, 2009.

  1. stevecaz

    stevecaz Member

    For those who have retrofitted and installed a standing column system with your existing well, what did you find needed replacement or upgrading of the existing systems (well pump, pressure tank, supply lines, or other items).

    I have the needed depth and yield with my 400 ft well; but which has a 3/4 hp pump, 36 gallon pressure tank, and 1.25 OD poly supply pipe. I have a company to trench to the well to install the discharge pipe in a new pitless adapter (and bleed-off line to existing underground driveway drain pipe).

    The heat pump units (2 tons and 2.5 ton) will replace the 2 gas furnaces and outdoor AC units. I understand a variable speed electronically controlled pump and 100-gallon pressure tank would be better, but what I'm looking for is what's nice to have replaced vs. what's absolutely needed. Pumps and pressure tanks usually have finite lives anyway and I'd rather they live them out first before replacing. Then of course other items you can think of that needed replacement.
     
  2. Mark Custis

    Mark Custis Not soon. Industry Professional Forum Leader

    I am going to watch

    and see what this pulls up, as I have little knowledge and no experiance in mixing HVAC and potable water. I do not do it.
     
  3. turkeyboy

    turkeyboy Member

    Re: Retrofit Standing Column-what systems did you replace?

    I hope you get some info. I'm very close to pulling the trigger on a very similar project. I have a 465 foot deep domestic well. I need 2.5 and 2 ton units for a 4.5 tons total. How much water does your well produce? Mine only produces 2 gpm. I've searched all over for info, with only bits and pieces coming together for me.
     
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Re: Retrofit Standing Column-what systems did you replace?

    What is the water level in these wells?

    Your water quality is ok?
     
  5. turkeyboy

    turkeyboy Member

    Re: Retrofit Standing Column-what systems did you replace?

    Static level in mine is around 30 feet. PH is 7.5, hardness is 7 grains. No dissolved iron or precipitated iron.
     
  6. moondawg

    moondawg Member

    Re: Retrofit Standing Column-what systems did you replace?

    Turkeyboy, from everything I've read on this board, 2 gpm ain't NEARLY enough... especially if you're using the well for your house water too.

    I am NOT an expert.
     
  7. AMI Contracting

    AMI Contracting A nice Van Morrison song Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Re: Retrofit Standing Column-what systems did you replace?

     
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Re: Retrofit Standing Column-what systems did you replace?

    When needed, a SCW dumps around 10% of the flow. So a 2 gpm well can run at 20 gpm.

    60' of water per ton is average for a SCW.
     
  9. turkeyboy

    turkeyboy Member

    Re: Retrofit Standing Column-what systems did you replace?

    Are you thinking of a standing column, or an open loop? With an open loop, where all the water is dumped into a stream or another well or some other place after going through the furnace, I can see what you are saying. With a standing column design, wouldn't your constraints be different, depending on depth of the well, and bleed?
     
  10. AMI Contracting

    AMI Contracting A nice Van Morrison song Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Re: Retrofit Standing Column-what systems did you replace?

    I guess it would depend on what you mean by "produces".
    More important was my check with the DEQ comment.
    J
     
  11. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Re: Retrofit Standing Column-what systems did you replace?

    Make sure that the discharge back into the well is below the water level.

    If there is dissolved iron, then oxygen is the enemy (it causes it to precipitate out and encourages iron bacteria).

    Unproven ideas to minimize oxygen in a well are:

    1) use oxygen barrier PEX
    2) put some mineral oil in the well to keep air from mixing at the water surface.
     
  12. turkeyboy

    turkeyboy Member

    Re: Retrofit Standing Column-what systems did you replace?

    What is the best way to ensure this happens? Because I have a low yield well, I can see circumstances where the level of the well fluctuates quite a lot. Is there a way to have the discharge hooked to some type of float so that it discharges say 5 feet below the level of the water, no mater what the level the water? Or do i just need to have the discharge below the level the water is likely to drop to? What about putting some type of sensor so that if the water level is too low, the heat pump doesn't cycle until the water is back above the level? Is there any way to monitor the level of the water in the well for a week or two, so see how much it drops given various domestic uses?
     
  13. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Re: Retrofit Standing Column-what systems did you replace?

    If you discharge above the water level, you waste some pumping energy and pick up oxygen. Probably not terrible if it happens now and then.

    If you discharge too deep, then you don't get as much mixing.

    A floating discharge is a good idea, but I can't think of a way that it would work in the confines of a well.

    You could store water with either a large (commercial) pressure tank or an unpressurized storage tank to avoid drawing down the well.

    Seems like it would be optimal to take water from the bottom in the summer and the top in the winter.

    I don't know how they measure water depth - I would probably drop a weight and float down and see when it stops pulling on the string.
     
  14. AMI Contracting

    AMI Contracting A nice Van Morrison song Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Re: Retrofit Standing Column-what systems did you replace?

    Turkeyboy et al,
    It seems my advice to consult with local DEQ is disinteresting, but since you will be messing with your drinking water, make sure that you at least qualify who you are getting advice from.....
    I'll start, as they are discouraged in MI I have no such installs.
    How 'bout you go next Jonr, how many SCW's do you have out there.....or closed loops, or open loops, or pond loops...or thermostats....?
    We are talking about the water people drink! Not a place to theorize!
    You want to offer opinions, fine, but qualify them with your background of what, a few months of on line research?
    j
     
  15. turkeyboy

    turkeyboy Member

    Re: Retrofit Standing Column-what systems did you replace?

    Not sure why you think this. I think it is good advice, and I will do it.

    I am just trying to take advantage of the resources I have available (e.g. 465 foot deep well). There is a paucity of information on standing column systems on the boards. If I felt like I had all the information I needed, I would have pulled the trigger 6 months ago. Instead, I am still researching. . . .
     
  16. Mark Custis

    Mark Custis Not soon. Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Good plan

    There are enough things in life that can go wrong, without messing up your potable water.
     
  17. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Re: Retrofit Standing Column-what systems did you replace?

    I doubt anyone else is confused by the phrase "Unproven ideas".
     
  18. Bergy

    Bergy Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Re: Retrofit Standing Column-what systems did you replace?

    jonr,

    As evidenced in many of your previous posts, people think you may be giving sound advice based on experience. This is not a "what if" forum. This forum should deal in "industry standards and best practices". As technology changes so will the industries standards and best practices. This forum's great strength is the ability for people, who don't know, to get sound advice.

    When you suggest experimenting with ones potable water supply, you WILL raise the ire of others.

    Here's some free advise from my wise Grandfather... Speak only of what you know...

    Bergy
     
  19. stevecaz

    stevecaz Member

    Re: Retrofit Standing Column-what systems did you replace?

    Whoa, I didn't expect so much activity on my thread, although the topic has gotten a bit off base.

    I have also been confused about where to set my discharge pipe, until I thought about it. As mentioned, with a SCW system the only water loss from the well is any bleed off which hopefully should be minimal and only during the most brutal periods of winter; and of course the domestic use that you always have.

    So in my case, 4.5 tons running on full at 2 gpm = 9 gallons. The most domestic water use at one time is really not more than 2 gpm in my house. So my max withdrawl at once is 11 gpm. Factor a conservative 30% bleed on the 9 gpm (3 gpm). All this means that my max net withdrawl is 2 gpm domestic + 3 gpm bleed for 5 gpm total.

    Using a Solinst water level meter, I will measure my drawdown directly at the well at 5 gpm discharge. I'm also going to pump at full blast, stop the flow, and then measure the recovery rate as the water returns to static (~15'). This will give me the lowest water level in the well under full operating conditions and full bleed as a basis to set my discharge pipe. Now there are some factors in play here and if it ever stops raining I'll try this soon and report in on the tests.
     
  20. turkeyboy

    turkeyboy Member

    Re: Retrofit Standing Column-what systems did you replace?

    Where are you getting a Solinst water level meter? Do you own one? Can you rent them? I'd love to do the same thing . . . .
     

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