Rehau RAUPEX PEXa RAUGEO Ground Loop System

So this morning I had a very informative discussion with the east coast regional mgr. He basically wanted to know if I was familiar with the system and how I was going to try and implement. He promised to fill my e-mail up with the data,pricing,supply chain info ect. A really nice guy. When the meat and potatoes gets here I will share. He did say that their main focus was to try and get design engineer people to spec their product on designed projects and filter down to residential from there. He is even going to schedule a show and tell at our club house.
Eric

 

we used Rehau products on our pond loop install.

 

Which product, how was the install, and are you happy x amount of time later?
Eric

 

Eric

Four loops of raupexA with a four circuit pro-balance manifold.

REHAU North America - PRO-BALANCE^® Manifold

I was involved with the install, but, as a homeowner, I really have nothing to compare my experience.

I like the ability to access the manifold but truthfully when comparing costs HDPE may have been more cost effective. Assuming of course one owns the fusion tool which was an issue in my install.

Our system is running great and I have no regrets.

 

I like the rehau system, but Mike used the words more expensive repeatadely. I fear that the cost of the system will not off set the cost savings of decreasing drill footage when we talk about mud rotary. Yet I am committed to find out. In my kneck of the woods fusion tools and a quick lesson is available from the distributor for cheap rent for diy.
Eric

 

If you want to look at some of Rehau's prices check out http://www.geo-enterprises.com/assets/pdf/2009catalog/RehauPEXSystems.pdf
They are pretty high at $600-700 per u-bend without any of the related components. Hopefully you don't need their special weight to keep the loop down as that may run another $400.

-Adam

 

Thanx Adam,
I certainly hope that the 1" x 200' loop for 500.00 is for the double set up. If it is not that makes a double 1"x200 upwards of 1k prior to the clips or the weighting system. I sure hope I am wrong.
Eric

 

their philosophy

rehau's benefit is that you use more pipe & need less bore length theoretically reducing the overall time & cost. I am keen to try their system but where I am the drillers all supply their own pipe and are unwilling to try something new.

I would do it on a horizontal loop too as pex is more robust that HDPE and requires no bedding material, but the way it works most effectively is if you use a vault. as I mentioned in another post, having the manifold in the basement has it's own difficulties associated with it: space, insulation & sealing bundles of pipe through the foundation. the concept is wonderful, just need some more industry acceptance/adoption I guess.(& cheap(er) vaults!)

as for a weight, I would have a hard time justifying the cost of a $400 aluminum billet, they are pretty until they are cast down into the depths of the earth forever. why couldn't you just fill a chunk of 3" ABS w/concrete and stick an eyebolt in the end?

ps: @waterpirate: I have a pricelist, and yes I believe that price is for one double loop.

 

I have gotten a pricelist and all associated data with the exception of the "multiple borehole" planning sheet. I was told that it is in the works and I should have it soon. Then I can do a benefit vs. cost breakdown based on cost per foot to drill for different regions of the country. One thing I did not like was that you have to unroll the assymblies and install the clips prior to insertion to the borehole, or stop the insertion every ten feet to install a clip.
Also the data from a clip manufacturer proved to be a little skewed and not a real comparison of the benefits or not of the clips. Rehau data is simmilarly skewed.
Eric

 

skewed?

how do you figure it's skewed? are they leaving out some critical information?

 

I used the word skewed to try and not offend. On the single borehole planning sheet it specs tc grout, warns that the info is theoretical, and gives no comparison to a conductivity test using two loops in two bore holes vs. two loops in one borehole using the same grout in the same lithology. I have no horse in this race, I am just sifting through info and data to in the hopes of doing an honest cost benefit annalysis.
Eric

 

we know....pirates don't ride horses

Thanks for doing the analysis

 

Yes of course !!!! How silly of me.

 

I have been busy and not had time to complete the cba in a timely manner untill now. Also I was torn by posting the results.

I am now going to post my findings as statements only and not the data. The data is out there if you are persistant peeling back the layers at rehau. My findings are based on single and multiple borehole configurations using tonnage achieved not boreholes required. I also used the cost of the loop assymbly only, no clips, no grout, no labor, just widget cost .

Using their cost sheet and data not mine, but inserting my loop cost.

For the cooling dominated climate assuming a tc of 1.0 a single hdpe .75 loop at a depth of 200 feet produces .81 of a ton capacity. Cost for that hdpe loop $98.00. Cost for the rehau double loop assymbly 1 inch diameter at 200 feet delivers 1 ton of capacity. cost of rehau assymbly $613.71.

The numbers for heating dominated were slightly different but the disparity in cost was also present. Both comparisons assumed the use of tc grout with no allowance for labor or the increased bore size.

All of this is not very flattering for rehau from a cost vs. roi for their product. I feel that if we add in the labor and costs of tc grout and larger bore size the ratio of cost differance would get worse.

The sales force for rehau said their primary focus is on commercial work not residential, however that market is going to be even more intollerant of increased cost vs minimul return than residential projects that are not enginered.
Eric

 

Thanks for doing the home work for us.

 

Be careful with PEX-A. Be sure you check out the physical properties before you design using conventional programs. (CM, Giai, etc.). ODs, ID and DR are diferent. Some cases 3/4" PEX-A is DR-9. Huge pressure drops with PG antifreeze. Trench and pipe lengths may not be comprable. You need to get tech information from manufacturer.

 

That is just one more list of things that make that product un-attractive.
Eric

 

Pex-A

I was being polite.
Cary Smith