Quote conflicts

Discussion in 'Quotes and Proposals' started by MrEnte, Feb 18, 2013.

  1. Mark Custis

    Mark Custis Not soon. Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Every home is unique as is every installation contractor. If additional moisture is needed in a home it can be added later, but you are correct it might not qualify for the tax credit.

    Mark
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2013
  2. engineer

    engineer Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Assuming no use of indoor air for combustion and reasonably tight ductwork (if any located outside the conditioned enclosure) all heating systems are created equal as to effect on humidity. Strips, air source heat pumps, single stage geo, two stage geo, variable capacity geo. None of these systems adds or removes so much as a single grain of moisture while in heating mode.

    If a house needs a humidifier in all but the most extreme climate, chances are it leaks too much outdoor air - better to address that at the enclosure rather than band-aiding it with a humi
     
  3. AMI Contracting

    AMI Contracting A nice Van Morrison song Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Series 7 is the last one to get anything near to capacity out of an evaporative humidifier. IMO if you are humidifying with geo steam is the best way to go.
     
  4. docjenser

    docjenser Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    In addition, the heat fossil fuel furnaces produce simply dries out the air more. The coil in a a heatpump is simply not as hot, neither is your supply temperature, so it does not dry out the air as much.
     
  5. mtrentw

    mtrentw Active Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Must disagree with Doc here. As Curt stated earlier,assuming no use of indoor air for combustion, 6 equals a half a dozen in terms of effect on humidity.
    While a gas furnace, or electric resistance element may raise the local (at the element/exchanger) temp much higher and effectively reduce relative humidity compared to a lower temp heat pump coil, the specific humidity (grains of moisture per pound of dry air) is not altered but through leaks which would be similar in either systems ductwork. When I mix the entire volume in a "sealed" volume of air and water vapor, the RH at a given temp will be the same for any heating system.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2013
  6. MrEnte

    MrEnte Member

    I must admit that I like this forum. There is no lack of food for thought. As a consumer after reading the past few posts, I really don't know if a humidifier is a good or bad investment. Based on the inputs from you guys & the quotes that I got, I don't really believe that it was a bad investment. (I have to believe that because I already bought it) I really think that it is difficult for the forum experts to give 100% the perfect solution simply because you don't have full access to the homes of consumers like me. But I give you credit for at least taking a stab at it and making me and each other think about the best solutions. With that said, I guess I'll wait until the winter to see if this humidifier is of any value. No matter what, when I sell the house one day, I'll tout it as a feature.
     
  7. docjenser

    docjenser Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    You are right, I am wrong. It was always the easy explanation for me, but not a correct one. I was coming from the "european" thinking that heat reduces moisture, which we see in radiant applications a lot.
     
  8. Excellent joe, reminds me of the drillers of thousands of systems telling people they have to warm it up in summer to get a good loop for mid feb dead end winter!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I said to that now finally using heat load sheets "designer" my customers went to Alaska last summer, no a/c on at all what do I tell them...?

    Heats is Heats and feets is feets!

    This job typically uninsulated if at 850 to 900 gal oil virtually used NO supplemental for many years slapping TETCO 4.1 1981 return-air heating only units in at 5 gpm 52 well water and a 43k compressor in on 5 ton air and water-size coils then.
    savings were near 80% on the dollar in 1982-1084 NE Ohio zone 5.

    insulated real 3-ton Iq compressor is a great choice I would agree...
     
  9. I will also add a hot-air (hah!) dry bone for old oil of the threader's leaving as also leaving a more-so drier problem: just now to have luke-warm air moving about...:

    If the old oil has any HIGHER tempered air allowing more of the THIN-AIR density billows to press against the ceilings and leaks, as cold air convection presses in to the structure, a noted DRYER home results.
    -I think one will see homes KEEP an INCREASED humidity readings just rotating air from HIGH RETURNS pulling the hot blanket ceiling layers away from the leakier old home high stories. Now from that vertical air stabilization I have used: Add the lower tempered heat pump air with its higher stabilizing air-differential resultants. EH?

    GT air rotatins with ceiling lower temps- is denser-cooler air in higher stories (air rotations or whatever) reduced-air-losses ~ 12f degree differences to 2f degree differences at a ceiling and high walls and windows and some doors out higher levels, will effectually simply reduce incoming cold air causing a mean increase in humidity NOT being diluted with as much volume of expanding (when warmed) fixed incoming cool air (to then) getting warmer/per fixed humidity-contents that are not expanding to that end warmer volume.
     
  10. higher stabilizing air-differential resultants (meaning resulting in a lower temperature differential being considered "stabilized")
     
  11. MrEnte

    MrEnte Member

    Hey Geo experts. Just an update on my Series 7. Overall I am very pleased with my system. There were a number of tweaks that needed to be done. During the summer the system kept running on high for over an hour. So cold that I had to wear a sweater on days when it was 95 degrees outside. The company took a "we're gonna make it right approach" They drove over 2 hours one way to make tweaks to my system probably 6 times. They had to turn off one of my loop pumps. The owner of the company even came to make sure that the system was working properly. But I must say the the house is now very comfortable. I enjoy not paying the oil company $700 to fill my oil tank.

    I actually didn't realize how great the system was until I rented a house in Ft Lauderdale last month that had a standard AC unit. My geothermal is only about 1000 times better. Even temps throughout the house.

    I do have a question....

    I already have a storage tank for the de-superheater leading into my regular water heater. Is it possible (and would it be worth it), to replace my ancient 40 hot water tank with a hybrid hot water tank? There is a deal for a hybrid 50 gal tank at Lowes (GE Geospring 50-Gallon 10-Year Hybrid Heat Pump Water Heater ENERGY STAR GEH50DEEDSR) for $999 with a $350 in tax credit & 300 electric rebate, it would only cost me $350 + installation.
     
  12. ChrisJ

    ChrisJ Active Member Forum Leader

    "They had to turn off one of my loop pumps"

    I thought 7 series used variable speed pumps?

    Chris
     
  13. MrEnte

    MrEnte Member

    yes as suggested by someone on this forum thread, that I have 2 pumps one of which is variable speed. This pump is more than enough for my system. It seems like my installer agreed. And the system runs great now.

    But I really want to know about the addition of the hybrid hot water heater.
     
  14. ChrisJ

    ChrisJ Active Member Forum Leader

  15. docjenser

    docjenser Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    I never understood why WF is designing the most efficient HP on the planet, only to combine it with the most inefficient pumping solution. This being having a constant speed circulator coming on as first stage for a variable speed heatpump, which runs 3 times as much as a regular heatpump. Total waste.
    What size 7 series do you have?
     
  16. engineer

    engineer Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    I wonder how over cooling the house relates to one too many loop pumps?

    The GE HPWH might make sense, depending on daily hot water usage and the knock-on effects of intermittently operating what amounts to a 1/2 ton air conditioner in the water heater's room. They are a no-brainer in Florida homes with 3-4 occupants, but elsewhere, a bit of care should be taken. Presence of a desuper properly plumbed to a dedicated buffer tank greatly decreases the ROI on incremental cost of water heating efficiency improvements.
     
  17. docjenser

    docjenser Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    It should not relate at all….????!!!! I am with you.
     
  18. MrEnte

    MrEnte Member

    I have a 4ton 7 series
     
  19. MrEnte

    MrEnte Member

    I think that you guys are correct. The pumps probably didn't make a difference in the AC running as much as it did. That was just one of the tweaks that the installer made. They ran the diagnostics and made some adjustments, replaced the thermostat wire with some fancy coated wire. It may have been due to some interference with the wiring in my house.

    Still loving the system. Got my Fed State & Electric co rebates & it's all paid for... sweet
     
  20. MrEnte

    MrEnte Member

    Hey Forum! It has been 3 years since I had my WF series 7 installed. I must say that I am extremely happy! Systems runs great, quiet & even temps throughout the house. I really enjoyed going back and reading this tread. 3 years later I have only one regret. That is I think that the humidifier was a waste of money. I really don't notice the moisture in the winter. We still feel the typical winter dry air. According to the system monitor it does have improved humidity, but I can honestly say that I can't really feel the difference.

    I would highly recommend the WF Series 7 & this forum. One of the best decisions that I ever made.
     
    Palace GeoThermal and urthbuoy like this.

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