New to Geo with Very Basic Questions

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by ohio, Oct 29, 2014.

  1. ohio

    ohio New Member

    Hi there, I appreciate your time with my ignorance.

    Recently purchased a home with a Waterfurnance 5 Series, installed a few years prior, after the previous owner was not please with their propane bills.

    Based on the Model Number (NDV072G111CT0BA)

    It has a dual capacity compressor - What does this mean?
    Unit Capacity is 072 - What does this mean?
    It generates how water with factory installed pump.
    Has a variable speed ECM- What does this mean?
    Has the Aurora Advanced Control Board (ABC and ABX) - What does this mean - I seem to have a basic thermostat that has an "Instant Energy Monitor"
    With Intellistart.

    What is the tonnage capacity? How do I find that out?

    I know very little about the system except how to wash and change the air filter, obviously.

    We have a 3200sqft residence and we have been pleased with the comfort/electric bills thus far but have only been in the house about 2 months of mild fall weather.

    We have a ground loop that is 5-6 feet deep.

    I desire to know more about the instant energy monitor.
    Blower 46w every hour to circulate air.
    When the system kicks on the compressor is up to 36XXwatts and the Elect heat (when producing heat) is usually about 100 watts.

    Does this seem to make since? I want to make sure my system is set up to run most cost effectively as it seems there are quite a few post regarding improperly setup systems with high electric usage.
  2. urthbuoy

    urthbuoy Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Welcome to geo!

    You have a:

    N = 5- series. Good unit.
    D = Dual Capacity. Better for matching unbalanced heating and cooling loads.
    V = Vertical Unit
    072 = 6 Ton
    G= Current Model
    1=Hot water generation (your desuperheater supplies some domestic hot water when the unit is running)
    1= ECM fan (variable speed)
    C= Copper coil (standard)
    T = top discharge air
    ? = You missed a number in here
    0= 2" MERV filter
    B = Aurora Advanced Control - allowing those measurements to show up on your thermostat
    A = No IntellIstart

    The best thing would be to have a service call and have someone (experienced) measure all the operating parameters (entering water temps, air temps, etc.) and give their results to you.
  3. ohio

    ohio New Member

    Thank you for the information! 6 ton - woah, that sounds heavy how did they get that in my
    I did purposefully omit the copper/and intake discharge orientation.

    Could you tell me more about the Aurora Advanced Control? My thermostat currently has the instant energy monitor which I find interesting but quite underwhelming. Does it have the potential to provide more data, based simply on having the Aurora Advanced Control , if I were to change thermostats?

    ...I also believe I have the IntelliStart. An "N" would correlate with non-IntelliStart

    I found the number of the installer with some paperwork in the basement. What do you think would be a reasonable charge for an "experienced" tech to look over and provide those operating parameters?
  4. urthbuoy

    urthbuoy Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    I have that portable field device and use that to monitor Aurora based units. I have zero experience with the WF thermostats that display this information. I just don't use WF t-stats with my units.

    The Aurora based controls (there are 3 levels I believe) are great for my purposes but I hear rumblings about the accuracy of the results by the time they get interpreted by the t-stats. Once again, no firsthand experience.

    I come from the land north of the wall, so I our pricing may not be very indicative of what you could expect. We have a flat rate for one-off inspections such as this - $175.
  5. ohio

    ohio New Member

    Thank you, I appreciate the information greatly!
  6. Mark Custis

    Mark Custis Not soon. Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Where are you?

  7. ohio

    ohio New Member


  8. Mark Custis

    Mark Custis Not soon. Industry Professional Forum Leader

  9. engineer

    engineer Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    If the system has Pete Ports, a good old fashioned Heat Extracted (winter) Heat Rejected (summer) plus a simple electric current measurement goes a long way toward assessing how well and efficiently the six ton beast is operating. Check his TESP (Total External Static Pressure) as well. A six ton system needs six tons of ductwork, and that component doesn't have an easy-to-interpret model number.

    Make sure whomever you hire to have a look is equipped with WF's AID tool.
  10. ohio

    ohio New Member

    Thank you for the information. I found the AID port on bad we can't just connect this to our laptop and have the software to review and monitor everything. It's a basic CAT5 ethernet port.
  11. ohio

    ohio New Member

    My instant energy monitor seems to displays when its running

    Blower 45
    Compressor 3413
    Elct Heat 108
    Pump 0

    Occasionally, I believe the Elct Heat says 0.
    The 3500 watts of the compressor,seems like alot....well sounds like lot to the ignorant. It runs for about 15 minutes every hour, i think.
    I have the DUAL Capacity Compressor type.

    Should the compressor be using roughly 3500 watts all the time?

    What does the dual capacity compressor mean for me and my 6-ton unit?

    Does the compressor correlate with the 6-ton capacity of the unit? Such that a 2 ton unit compressor would us only 1000watts and say a 4 ton unit would use 2000 watts?

    Again I apologize for my ignorance and thank you for helping me learn.
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2014
  12. engineer

    engineer Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    A six ton system operating in stage 1 basically mimics a 4 ton system. 3413 Watts seems reasonable for a 6T in low stage, but we'd need to know waterside temperatures and pressures to be sure. If the system kicks into high stage, look for the compressor Watts to increase by 50-60%

    Blower Watts seem too low for a 6T in low stage. The elect heat Watts makes no sense...either the backup / auxiliary resistance heat is on (10,000 Watts or more) or off.

    While 3500 Watts may seem to be a bunch of electricity, anywhere from 30 - 50 cents per hour, depending on your utility, if the system is working reasonably well it should be producing roughly 40,000 Btuh, which is roughly equivalent to anywhere from $1 - $2 worth of propane.

    Bear in mind this is pure conjecture based on very limited information. You need "boots on the ground", that is a competent WaterFurnace dealer equipped with an AID tool in order to confirm proper system operation.
  13. ohio

    ohio New Member

    Out of curiosity I turned our thermostat up to 71 from 67. It kicked on to Heat Stage 2. This produced numbers on the instant energy monitor as:
    Blower 44 watts
    Compressor 3500-3664 watts
    Elect Heat 215 Watts
    Pump 0 Watts

    Does this seem to correlate with stage 2 heat at all?

    I have a closed loop systems. Could the Elect Heat be the pump watts? Should I have a pump wattage? Embarrassed to ask, but I imagine all these systems have a pump to circulate the water. Not sure if it pumps "harder" in stage 2 compared to stage 1.
  14. engineer

    engineer Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    There is some kind of disconnect here. Either the system didn't actually go into stage 2 or the instant energy monitor is not reporting real data. Is the system zoned? Did blower get any louder or seem to blow more air in stage 2.

    If closed loop there must be a pump, though typically pump speed does not change between stages. The pump may not be connected to the monitor.

    The above reply came from me...I have an email in to the admin to figure out why site is automatically logging me in as another user...strange.
  15. Palace GeoThermal

    Palace GeoThermal Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    I was logged in as the newest member also ??
  16. ohio

    ohio New Member

    From reading other post, I imagine my Instant Energy Monitor isn't accurate but may be worth talking with the installer about. Seems quite a few have inaccurate WF thermostats, unfortunately.
    The system is not zoned.
    I did not notice the blower speed.

    I will probably call the installer this week. Assuming they have the AID tool what types of measurements should I be looking for to check for optimal function and efficiency.

    Stage 1 Vs Stage 2 and blower watts, compressor watts, Elect Heat, and pump watts.
    Total External Static Pressure?
    Incoming and outgoing temperatures, air and water temps.

    Mark Custis - I am about 25 minutes from Interstate 71 near Mansfield if you are ever driving from Cleveland to Columbus and want to have a look :)
    Not sure if you are a WF guy from looking at your website but you are obviously quite knowledgeable.
  17. geoxne

    geoxne Active Member Forum Leader

    The Energy Monitoring System has to be configured and setup for your system with the AID Tool. This should have been done by the original installer at startup. I would try to get them back to double check their own work and see if they will stand behind their installation.

    The current sensors may be on the wrong wires or in the wrong configuration. Have them checked.

    The color Energy Monitoring thermostats may have to be updated with new software if not already done.

    If you can't get the original installer back, start looking for new support.

    Make sure you are using a WF trained technician. Anyone else will not have access to specific WF resources.
  18. geoxne

    geoxne Active Member Forum Leader

    Same here until I noticed and logged out. Very strange.

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