Pennsylvania Need replacement Geo unit

Discussion in 'Quotes and Proposals' started by mcj115, May 25, 2017.

  1. mcj115

    mcj115 New Member

    The time has come to replace my current Geo unit which is a Waterfurance Series 2 built in 1995. Last year the fan motor went, now the coil leaks, and the compressor is obsolete. so time for a new unit.

    I am getting quotes for replacements units. My the current unit is rated at 57000 BTU which translates to ~4.75 ton unit. The first two companies have come in and assumed to replace the unit with a 5 ton unit. both guys said that the loop is engineered to the size of the unit which makes practical sense to me. Heck 4.75 rounds up to tons rather than going down to 4 tons. I am having other companies come in and give quotes...should I be expecting them to just assume a 5 ton unit or should I be expecting a J load calculation?

    Are there any other things to watch out for? From my general survey of looks like most brands offer a good, better, best levels of units. I am leaning toward the "better" level of option. In general the differences in better and best is a variable compressor, instead of a two stage , and a better control system.

    For my application I have a single zone house and of an opinion with these geo units to "set it and forgot it" and not touch the thermostat at all. So for me the fancy control systems seem just like a marketing I off base? Sure variable displacement compressors will incremental be more efficient, however I am not sure I would recoup the incremental acquisition costs over the life of the unit. Additionally I would expect variable compressors would be more costly to replace in the future.

    Any feedback?
  2. docjenser

    docjenser Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Welcome here.

    I do emphasize that the variable speed systems offer much more comfort, and much more energy savings due to low load operation, lesser cycling, and lesser pumping power due to modulating pumps on the loop. So your savings an comfort will be much higher, but I do admit they come at a price.

    I also install the symphony system for remote control and monitoring on every 5 series (dual stage) and 7 series (variable speed), both you and your contractor will benefit from it.
    The fact that it alarms the installer via email with any errors, and tell you what is actually wrong, saves the installer a trip out to you to diagnose the fault. So our service truck leaves for the customer with the spare part on it already, many times before the customer knows that there is something wrong with the system.

    So in my world, if the customer wants to save the money and not put a monitoring system in the unit, I respectfully refer him /her to my competitor.
  3. mcj115

    mcj115 New Member

    Thanks for your insight. Out of curiosity what would you estimate your install rate split between the 3/5/7 series, percentage wise? As for the compressor, dual vs variable, it may just be one of those things where I don't know what I am missing. Guess I'll need to wait for the quotes to come back to see the real dollars and cents difference to make selection of "better" or "best" and brand.
  4. docjenser

    docjenser Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    We obviously installing Waterfurnace right now, and we have been through Climatemaster, and Hydron years ago. Nothing wrong with either one of them, and we, and everyone else here, will always emphasize that the installer/designer is more important than the brand. Each brand can have issues, like every car brand might have issues, even the best and most reliable out there.

    The reasons why we ended up with Waterfurnace is that they gave us the least amount of issues, and they pushed the technology, with high temperature heat pumps on the water-water side, with the variable speed technology on the water-air side, and with the remote control and monitoring capabilities. So for us the combination of reliability and advancement of technology was a good combination, in my opinion the best one out there. Not saying that they do not have flaws or un-evolved installers, but they are pretty good in sorting those out in the last years.

    I remember when we put in the first 7 series variable speed, my technician called and and stated "Once you put one of those in, you never want to put anything else in."

    Now about 90% of our residential customer follow our advise and chose the 7-Series.

    Here is an interesting case where we replaced a 6 ton heat controller with a 5 ton 7 series.

    Interestingly the 5 ton unit had a higher capacity than the 6 ton it replaced, since the unit run much lesser amount of time into supplement heat. It is rare to have a direct comparison like that, so it officially impressed me.

    I don't want to come through as blowing too much into the Waterfurnace horn, but it might give you some thoughts.

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