South Carolina Need Advice

Discussion in 'Quotes and Proposals' started by David Kiser, Feb 8, 2019.

  1. David Kiser

    David Kiser New Member

    We are looking to replace a WF Premier 3-ton (34) unit. It threw a water flow code. A tech came out and said the refrigerant (r-22) was leaking. The vertical tower is from 1997. It has the date 2004 written on it. I suppose the previous owner had issue with something then. We were quoted $3,300 to fix and were warned that the blower is old and about to go as well.

    We live in the Upstate of South Carolina.

    Speaking of wells this is a pump and dump open loop system. The house was built in the early 80s and the neighborhood houses all have the same kind of well. WE have lived in the house going on 4 or (or is it five years) In that time we had a single issue during the heat of summer when the unit couldn't keep up. It popped a Drainage code. I wish I remember what the tech fixed. I believe he replaced a valve (I had no knowledge of the system at that time.) The house is a bit more than 3,500 sf with a passive solar design, good windows, walk out basement (that stays reasonably cool in the humid SC summer)

    I sought out a few quotes for a new unit and I need your advice. There are a few things that concern me. I contacted a number of companies that install Water Furnace.

    1st quote
    1.Remove and dispose of old unit
    2. connect and seal to existing supply duct
    3. Enlarge 12'' return to 14''
    4. Mastic seal duct to new unit
    5. re-connect all water and electrical connections
    6. 10 year parts and compressor warranty (didn't specify which model. I am assuming the 3 series?)
    7. 53 pt. inspection after installation
    8. One year service plan included

    $15,235.00 (Not sure if this is after or before the 30 percent tax credit and I assume this is the 3 series?

    2nd quote
    1. Install New Taco Valve
    2. 5 series Water Furnace
    3. Warranty 10 years parts, 10 year labor
    4. Connect to existing ductwork
    5. New Refrigerant Piping
    6. Connect to existing Condensate drain piping
    7. Connect to existing electrical wiring
    8. 1st year HVAC Protection Plan included with the purchase
    9. New Return Plenum
    10.New Supply Plenum
    11. Remove and Dispose the Existing equipment.

    Before 30 % tax credit and additional discounts
    after all applied

    3rd quote (includes Zoning)
    1. Install New Geothermal System
    2. IntelliZone Comfort Zoning System up to a 4 zone with symphony
    3. 5 series 3 ton vertical backup heater up to 10kw variable speed fan performance monitoring with AWL Communicating color thermostat AHRI 5696562
    4. 12 inch honeywell Round Damper
    5. Aprillaire 2210 20*25
    6. Comfort club 1 system on 1st year install
    7. Return Plenum
    8. Installing replacement flex on existing return air

    total before tax credit and discount
    Net investment

    All companies were very nice to work with and communicative. The last quote initially suggested a horizontal 5 series but for some reason they are more expensive?

    Please let me know if anything stands out. Are there any red flags. I have a few qualms:

    Is it common to assume that the existing open loop is working fine? When will the companies measure the incoming and out going water temps? to be sure new unit will be as efficient as promised. Our current electrical heating and iar bill has not been the lowest. It averages a bit more than 200 a month (mild climate with seasons). I think many of the contractors assumed we were getting 3 gpm flow per ton in our current system but I would like this verified. There is a single pressure monitor on the incoming water loop and it reads about 40 psi and increases when the pump turns on. I am concerned the pump might be working too hard (thus inefficient). The former owners mentioned the well is about 100 foot. However I have no real scientific answers. I guess for me there are a lot of questions about the existing open loop that I need to have addressed. Should I pay a tech from another geothermal specialist to exam the open loop? Or would I be able to answer those questions myself.

    Thanks for your help and thankfully the weather is quite blissful in our area meaning I can't take a bit more time and do it right.

  2. docjenser

    docjenser Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    3rd company has zoning included, which is expensive, and also has the symphony monitoring and controlling in there. Very valuable.
    So you have a flow code, ....why? The unit does not know that there is less water flowing through. There is no such thing as a water flow code. BS meter is on alert, unless proven otherwise. You might have a coil freezing......

    The unit might be efficient, but is the pumping solution? Open loop only needs 1.5 gym/ton. Again, how efficient is your pumping?
  3. David Kiser

    David Kiser New Member

    Thanks for your response. I believe the tech mentioned the code was thrown because a leak in the air coil so I am assuming...freezing.

    As for the replacement is it normal for companies to skip an analysis of the current loop system? I would be happy to pay for a tech to investigate.

  4. docjenser

    docjenser Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    If the loop worked well thus far, usually not an issue.

    There is no code for a leak in the air coil. Might be low pressure, after a pressure loss of refrigerant.
  5. David Kiser

    David Kiser New Member

    IN this case would it be ill advised to do a self install? My reasoning is the loop has been reliable (suspicious that the pump is working too hard however ) and the cost of a new unit (possibly looking at a Climate Master 3 ton) is not too much more than the quoted repair cost. I would love to replace with another water furnace but it seems cost prohibitive at this point.
  6. docjenser

    docjenser Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    With rebates and tax credits, I would not repair this old unit for $3,300.

    There is not a too hard working pump nowadays. Who voices this suspicion?
  7. David Kiser

    David Kiser New Member

    Those are my perhaps unadvised suspicions! :mad: Yes we will scrap the current unit.

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