We are in the midst of getting bids for a geo system. We currently have 14 tons in 4 different units. We will be adding about 2 more to heat a new addition. Currently heating with propane and cannot wait to get rid of it (I don't know why font changed!). Anyway, trying to decide between vertical and horizontal. Vertical is perferred because of "less mess" in the yard. I have spoken with someone who used to be in the biz and was a geo trainer. He told me to have one person drill the wells and find a reputable company (he recommended one) just tie into the wells. He said this was more cost effective. One company I've had out here had said they won't do that because the cannot guarantee their system if someone else does the wells. What are your thoughts on this? This will be in the $100,000 range so it would be nice to save a few $$ if possible. Not wanting the cheapest install but the best for the best price. Also, how much more does it cost to add the desuperheater? And he mentioned using the geo to heat the pool. Is this a separate heater or would it use water from the desuperheater? Not sure how that works. And, can units go in the attic? First guy said all of them could go under the house (two story, no basement). It would be nice to have the totally out of sight! I don't even know how they get them under the house - it's not that tall under there! I started exploring geo 5 yrs. ago but cost kept us away. Now we're looking at replacing units as they age and I've had people suggest we just go with geo so we're looking at it again. Would also like to know what units have the best repair and longevity record. Thanks to anyone that can offer up some sage advice!
Geo is an art form for the experianced. Gross general statements are to be avoided. Vertical causes less yard mess is one of those statements. As to who does what? You need to check refrences and get the pedigree of anyone involved in your project, then follow their reccomendations. As a consumer YOU have to decide who to trust. Trusting someone with no skin in your game, is a recipe for " I did stay at Holiday Express last night". Eric
We are in the midst of getting bids for a geo system. We currently have 14 tons in 4 different units. The tonnage you have for cooling now (or the "tons" of propane heat) may not be the same as the tonnage you need for geo heating. We will be adding about 2 more to heat a new addition. Currently heating with propane and cannot wait to get rid of it (I don't know why font changed!). Anyway, trying to decide between vertical and horizontal. Vertical is perferred because of "less mess" in the yard. Vertical can be extremely messy unless they put down mats and employ a pump truck for cuttings. It is also often more expensive. I have spoken with someone who used to be in the biz and was a geo trainer. Stop right there. The evolution of geo design has been extremely dramatic in the last few years his advice may be no more useful than a Commodore computer. He told me to have one person drill the wells and find a reputable company (he recommended one) just tie into the wells. He said this was more cost effective. One company I've had out here had said they won't do that because the cannot guarantee their system if someone else does the wells. What are your thoughts on this? Somebody is going to be responsible for the performance of this system. If you act as a general contractor by hiring out subs to do individual parts of the job, you are the one who "owns" the result. This will be in the $100,000 range so it would be nice to save a few $$ if possible. Not wanting the cheapest install but the best for the best price. Ask bidders for areas where you can get sweat equity or sub contract other trades (i.e. electrical, excavation, plumbing). Also, how much more does it cost to add the desuperheater? And he mentioned using the geo to heat the pool. Is this a separate heater or would it use water from the desuperheater? Not sure how that works. The DSH itself is not too expensive, but process piping and buffer tank add up (especially if you have multiple units). And, can units go in the attic? First guy said all of them could go under the house (two story, no basement). It would be nice to have the totally out of sight! I don't even know how they get them under the house - it's not that tall under there! Yes units can go in the attic, but one has to gaurd against noise (as compressor can radiate a harmonic throughout house). We generally use split systems which have the refrigeration unit seperate from the air handling unit (much like the A/Cs you have now). That way I can have the compressor in the crawl and the air handler upstairs. I started exploring geo 5 yrs. ago but cost kept us away. Now we're looking at replacing units as they age and I've had people suggest we just go with geo so we're looking at it again. Would also like to know what units have the best repair and longevity record. Get the best installer you can and the brand of equipment doesn't matter. Beware of warranty limitations, ask bidders if they accept manufacturers' labor allowances or if you'll be charged the difference. Read our geo shoppers guide. Though dated it is still a good start. Thanks to anyone that can offer up some sage advice!
Thanks for your replies - MUCH appreciated. By "mess" I meant that our entire yard would not have to be trenched. With 6500 s.f. it will require a lot of wells or trenches. They're telling me wells are more efficient - opinion on that? Also, no one has mentioned split geo units so that's interesting. Guess I have a few more questions to ask. They'll wonder how I know so much. Thanks again!
The whole concept of geo is getting the amount of pipe needed for the job in the ground the most cost effective way. When people say one is more effecient than the oter, they have their a$$ hanging out. If they say it is cheaper here, then I would listen. For a job that may have 14 tons of load, you need the most experianced guy in your locality, not the cheapest or newest. Keep the questions comming, we will be right here. Eric
You don't know what a mess is untill you see a well driller that is not concerned with containing cuttings. Split systems have a place, but far less frequently than package systems (IMHO). One of those places is to avoid putting a compressor in the attic, though there are ways to mitigate noise if a package unit is used. "More efficient" in loop speak means harvests (or rejects) the same amount of btu's with less feet of pipe. It has nothing to do with operating efficiency/cost of overall system.
OK, I have received my first bid so I'm asking the geniuses here what they think - good, bad or ugly. Opinions MUCH appreciated. 1-5 series 5 ton split with 10 kw auxilary heat 1-7 series 4 ton (upflow) pkg with 10 kw auxilary heat + desuperheater (3 zones) 1-7 series 3 ton (downflow) pak with 8 kw auxilary heat + desuperheater (3 zones) 1-7 series 4 ton horizontal pkg with 10 kw auxilary heat This will include minimal new ductwork for room addition and installing water heater tanks and drilling for 16 ton (8 wells). Waterfurnace units were in quote. (Drumroll) $126,410.00 What do you think? I have someone else coming out next week so anxious to see that one too..... Thanks again!
What is the loss/gain for each of the zones served by these 4 units. How come all are 7 series except the 5 ton? It is interesting that your largest unit has a 10k aux. j
Loss/gain? I have no idea - he didn't talk about that and that's above my pay grade! He did say if we accepted his bid they would come out and do a load calc to make sure everything would work. I believe he said the 5 ton he quoted didn't come in a 7 series. You're thinking 5 ton should have more than 10K aux.? Thanks for reply.
So let me get this straight, he said IF you accept his proposal THEN he will properly design the system? Without knowing the manual J loads, we can't really comment on the "design".
A good geo guy should have the design already in head leaving your property, do the rough load calcs, and then size the equipment accordingly, and then write up a proposal. How do you know now that the equipment he proposes now is too much or not enough? He needs to put a bit more effort in, especially for a 126K job. 7 series is available as a 5 ton. No difference in efficiency between vertical and horizontal if designed correctly.
Agreed , if the customer wanted a proposal on site or a good idea for budgeting, I could easier provide for a typical forced air system or a standard hydronic job.
