New York Monitoring geothermal system

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Stickman, Oct 15, 2014.

  1. Stickman

    Stickman Member Forum Leader

    I've had my system in for a year now, and realize the importance of monitoring it. I plan to go with the WEL, based on the reading I've done in this forum. There is data that I'd like to collect to help me find out what the system is costing me to operate. My question is, for the pros, what would you recommend I monitor to help determine what may need to be repaired/replaced/adjusted?

    My system is a 4 ton ClimateMaster 27 Tranquility split, 2 stage with aux heat strip, closed loop with 4 200' grouted bore holes, water to air, 50 gallon electric HWH with 50 gallon buffer, DSH.

    I've already planned on monitoring EAT, LAT, EWT, LWT, compressor stages, aux heat run time, HWH run time, and HWH and buffer tank temps. I'm contemplating if I should also record the refrigerant temps.
     
  2. docjenser

    docjenser Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    refrigerant temps are not important, but get an amp sensor. You already know the voltage, and if you have the amperage, you can calculate the wattage, and then you can calculate the instantaneous, daily monthly and yearly consumption.
    Here is the amp sensor we are using which goes into the 0-5V input of the WEL.
    http://www.phidgets.com/products.php?category=8&product_id=3502_0

    Also get the thermostat input box for the WEL.
     
  3. Stickman

    Stickman Member Forum Leader

    Would the thermostat input box be used for recording compressor stages and aux usage?
     
  4. parrisjr

    parrisjr Member

    image.jpg image.jpg I would also just like to add that I have been using the ground energy monitoring system now for several years. ( www.groundenergysupport.com ). It was easy to install, and I have had great service. You have several tabs to choose from where you can get graphs and sensor feedback.

    If you have any questions I will be happy to reply to them.

    Just my two cents :)
     
  5. docjenser

    docjenser Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Yes.
     
  6. Stickman

    Stickman Member Forum Leader

    Parrisjr: Thanks for the alternate recommendation. Did you consider the WEL before going with ground energy? WEL gets a lot of compliments in this forum, but Ground energy does seem to have a more user-friendly interface. I'm leaning towards WEL because maybe some day I might have to ask for help from forum pro's and other WEL users if my system is in need of a looking-over.
     
  7. parrisjr

    parrisjr Member

    Stickman,

    Yes, I looked at the WEL and some others. I decided on GroundEnergy for the ease of use and installation. It is a very user friendly monitoring system to use and you building on it is not limited. You can tailor it to your specific needs and wants.

    Matt Davis of GroundEnergy has been there every step of the way and is always available to help and answer any questions I may have.

    I am very satisfied with the system and the feedback I get from it.

    Parrisjr
     
  8. sailor4

    sailor4 New Member

    I have a Climatemaster Trilogy 930 system (closed loop) with a Climatemaster (Ecobee Smart Si) thermostat which came with the install. The system has been operating since September 2014. I have a TED 5000 monitoring the power consumption. I am using the HomeIQ download to get informatoin on the system performance and it reports information every 5 minutes via a WiFi link. The web data plots are good but limited and the download CSV data set is also rather limited compared to the information which can be gathered from the thermostat menu. Some good data is reported including compressor load point, Leaving Air Temperature, Leaving Water temp for ground loop and runtimes. Missing on the download data set are other Ground Loop data such as Entering water temperature, Ground loop flow rate, Ground loop pump Watts, Heat of Extraction BTU output, Entering Air temperature, Fan CFM, Fan Watts, and COP. The missing data can be accessed via the thermostat menu, but this is time consuming and does not give one a log of time history of the data. Has anyone seen more data available. Apparently there is a remote access data set accessable by the dealer's service department which may give more data. Does anyone have more monitoring experience with the Climatemaster Trilogy?
     
  9. engineer

    engineer Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Sailor,

    Web and site etiquette suggest that you start your own thread rather than "hijacking" Stickman's thread to ask your own questions.
     
  10. Stickman

    Stickman Member Forum Leader

    Doc - I inquired with WEL about metering electric usage and was told I needed the WattNode. Can you tell me how you achieve the same result with the amp sensor? Do you have a public WEL user doing this that I could view? Thanks!
     
  11. docjenser

    docjenser Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    http://welserver.com/WEL0396/

    Here is the link to a system which has both, just for validation purposes. A watts meter, and an Amp sensor. You can measure the voltage, which is relative constant, and then have the WEL multiply it with the amps used to get the wattage. You can see the monthly energy usage measured by the 2 systems are within 2-3%.

    I like http://www.phidgets.com/products.php?category=8&product_id=3502_0 for 50amp sensors.
     
  12. Stickman

    Stickman Member Forum Leader


    Doc, how do you adjust for power factor? Do you measure the phase of the current vs voltage as well, then apply correction based on that, or are you more interested in VA rather than real watts for your monitoring purposes?
     
  13. docjenser

    docjenser Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    I apply a power factor of 0.85. I calibrated things multiple times with a watt meter, and it comes out pretty much around .85 all the time.
     
  14. Stickman

    Stickman Member Forum Leader

    Hmmmmmm.... That wasn't me that posted the last question. Looks like the rogue logon issue still exists.
     
  15. Mark Custis

    Mark Custis Not soon. Industry Professional Forum Leader

    It got me today. I was not logged on as you.

    This keeps up we could have a fox fight in the hen house.

    Mark
     
  16. Stickman

    Stickman Member Forum Leader

    Happy New Year to All!

    I got my WEL (http://welserver.com/WEL0899) for Xmas and got it online the other day. Just have compressor stages monitored right now. I'd like to get to measuring usage soon, and make it as accurate as possible. Regarding the amp sensor recommendation, I understand needing it for measuring compressor consumption, but what about my single speed loop pump, variable speed air handler and electric HWH? Do they all need amp sensors or are current switches OK?
     
  17. heatoldhome

    heatoldhome Geo Student Forum Leader

    Did you do the install? If so could you share what's involved and maybe post some pictures? (Wel logger system)
     
  18. Stickman

    Stickman Member Forum Leader

    Yes, I installed it myself. So far I've had to run cat 5 from the den to the mechanical room, connect/power up/configure the WEL, and start adding sensors. I first put one temp sensor on just to see if it was working - success! Next up was the thermostat input box. Was cautioned that this involves tapping the control wires, but the documentation and help are more than adequate. Used some phone cable to tap into the Y1 and Y2 signals, and now I can see when, how and how long my heat pump is running! I plan on putting up a plywood board and mounting the components properly, but haven't done so yet. Pics to come at that time.
     

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