Is the charge for service reasonable?

Discussion in 'Quotes and Proposals' started by pinelake, Jan 25, 2011.

  1. pinelake

    pinelake New Member

    Our Water Furnace unit (Envision 049) is not even four years old. Last Nov. it quit. A service man from Porter & Heckman, who installed the unit, came and spent four hours to decide the compressor was bad. He came back four days later to replace the compressor. Only a week later the unit quit again. Another serviceman spent two hours and could not find problem but he did make the unit run again by simply shut off power (from circuit breaker) for few minutes then turned back on. Six days later it happened again. This time I did the same thing by shutting off circuit breaker and turned it back on. The unit revived back. I called Porter & Heckman to report the problem. The man in charge told me blower needed to be replaced. Am I the first one getting hit by both compressor and blower at the almost same time in this early stage of the unit? Or the serviceman did not diagnose correctly?

    Although the unit is still under warranty, for both replacements we were billed $713 for labor, reclaim refrigerant, nitro boost, and trip. I understand I’m responsible for the labor charge but am I responsible for refrigerant ($165) and nitro boost ($85)? Any input will be greatly appreciated.
  2. geome

    geome Member Forum Leader

    Your original thread about this problem contains information that may be relevant to answering this question.

    For example -
    "He said WF people told him this was the third incident in this particular model"

    I hope WF could tell me what has they found the problem on the compressor. (The repairman who came to replaced it said the defected one would be sent back to WF to disect and analyze.)"

    Here is a link to the thread -
  3. AMI Contracting

    AMI Contracting A nice Van Morrison song Industry Professional Forum Leader

    The conditions of most warranties from a manufacturer cover parts, but not necessarily labor or associated materials- couplings, nitrogen refrigerant or old refrigerant disposal....
    What's worse in my mind is the false security of labor warranties that cover only part of the actual cost.
    WF like other brands may have problems from time to time this is why dealer is so important, as they could have mitigated some of the repair expense.
    Good Luck,
  4. Verdae

    Verdae Member

    First of all, the WF Envision has error codes that inform the service person what area to look at. They also have a special monitor for the compressor, again to inform the service person (although your unit may predate this monitor). Turning off the unit at the breaker erases these error codes. Next time it goes out go down to the unit and look at the lights and notate which lights are on or blinking. Then call WF and follow the prompts for homeowners. The way to turn the unit back on without erasing the code is to turn the thermostat mode to OFF, wait a minute and then turn the mode back to HEAT. This is called a soft restart and will leave all error codes intact.
    The compressors used in these units is the same compressor used by all the two stage units made by almost all manufacturers and it is very reliable. I was not in the basement but I suspect parts changing is going on. WF has an very good technical department and the service person should be verifying problems with them before replacing compressors or blowers. I have never had a blower problem where the blower was still working, there are air flow settings that may not be set right (the service person may have played with these).
    There is a labor allowance for repairs that may not be enough to cover the labor costs,
    No manufacturer covers refrigerant.
    How long did it take the service person to replace the compressor and get the unit operating? It generally takes 4-6 hours after the compressor is piped to remove all the moisture with the evacuation pump and the use of a micron gauge is required to know when the moisture is gone, a new filter/dryer should also have been installed.
    It is impossible to know what is wrong with your unit without being there, but I would suggest you get another WF dealer to check out your unit or insist the service manager come out and that he confer with WF technical before anything is removed or replaced. Be in the basement with him and have him show you the error codes.
  5. AMI Contracting

    AMI Contracting A nice Van Morrison song Industry Professional Forum Leader

  6. Verdae

    Verdae Member

    "We alot 6 man hours- total- for a compressor change.
    Use of dual vacuum pumps etc can reduce moisture removal time."

    Of course your service tech uses a micron gauge! Too many service techs do not. I had a vacuum pump on one unit for 1.5 days to get <500 microns because the compressor was left with open piping when the service crew went to lunch.

    Moisture can actually move against pressure to get to the POE oil because it has such low vapor pressure (which is very different than air pressure)
  7. AMI Contracting

    AMI Contracting A nice Van Morrison song Industry Professional Forum Leader

    I bring it up simply because we will get folks concerned if their repairman does not take as long as someone here said it should.
  8. Verdae

    Verdae Member

    True enough.
    It is not about the quantity of time but the quality of work.

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