Pennsylvania HowTo Prove I Have Desuperheater In My Carrier GT?

Discussion in 'Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by csementuh, May 19, 2016.

  1. csementuh

    csementuh Member

    Hello! Lurker finally turned poster here. :)

    I'll make this short and sweet... Does my brand new Carrier GT system have the turn key desuperheater installed AKA can I buy a second electric tank for preheat, plumb it in and start it up? The part number decodes as having a desuperheater, but I'm still anxious. Carrier says they can't give very much info to a homeowner and you have to contact a local installer. Can one of you pros please confirm?

    This is an install in a new construction house, never even been turned on yet. Long story short, I don't trust the builder due to major problems with this build, and I don't trust their subs, plus the sub puts me in contact with a bitchy project manager there and she is terrible at answering my questions. I can't get prices through the sub, I have to go through the builder. It took me several months for them to tell me a second tank with desuperheater would be an extra $4k. Lulwat..!?!? If the option is factory installed it should be as simple as a second cheap tank and some plumbing... Needless to say I declined their factory install and I'm looking to have a plumber friend do it after I move in soon. I just want to triple check that they didn't somehow neuter my geo unit and I lose out on the desuperheater ability.

    I took the access panels off the unit and looked around. There is a water in and out on the side with the loop in/out, plus those go to some sort of unit labeled 'Turbotec Refridgerant Heat Reclaimer" and there appears to be some type of pump driving the whole thing. First intuition says, great that seems like a desuperheater!

    Here's my concern: I found the parts, but I don't see the correct switches referenced in the manuals on the control panel inside. The documentation I found (manuals) speak of a 'SW21' and others that need flipped to turn on the system, test it, or adjust water temp. I don't see those exact labels on my board. If mine does have the desuperheater like I think it does, can someone shed some light on what needs flipped on my board since it doesn't have the traditional names?

    Here's my model info:

    GT036VTLCDET1XX1 (D should equal desuperheater)

    Here are some pictures of the unit:

    If anyone can help shed some light on if this unit has a turnkey desuperheater and most importantly help identify the controls that would be most helpful! Thank you!
  2. csementuh

    csementuh Member

  3. urthbuoy

    urthbuoy Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Yes. You got one.

    You'll find the dip switch somewhere.
  4. csementuh

    csementuh Member

    Thanks! I sure thought so, but I was quite nervous when they were charging me $4k for something that can be installed for $500 in parts.

    Any idea where the switches are at? I opened the control panel box and looked at the other PCB inside and still nothing was clearly labeled?

    Here's the 'inside' board:

  5. urthbuoy

    urthbuoy Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    I'm not a Carrier/Climatemaster guy so it's not off the top of my head. Look at the electrical schematics on the back of the panel. Should get you there.
  6. csementuh

    csementuh Member

    Good idea, thank you again!

    Here's the panel electrical diagram. The info is in red, but it doesn't really seem to show where the actual switches are. I guess I'll have to go take the panel back off and look harder in the next day or so. Perhaps the switches aren't on a PCB but rather somewhere else?


    Anyone familiar with these Carrier units?
  7. Stickman

    Stickman Active Member Forum Leader

    Last edited: May 20, 2016
  8. geoxne

    geoxne Active Member Forum Leader

    The OEM of your unit is Florida Heat Pump of Ft. Lauderdale. Disregard any references to Climatemaster.

    The posted wiring diagram delineates the desuperheater (HRP) circuit and component legend in red. Trace the blue and white wires off the brown circulator pump. One leg should go to the compressor contactor. The other leg should go to the switch/overload (SWT). Documentation does not say where this switch is. There is no dipswitch.

    Do not turn it on until filled and purged with water.
  9. csementuh

    csementuh Member

    Thanks Stickman, I did see the pics, and I was expecting a series of switches like that. Are you the same Stickman who takes the gun photos?

    geoxne, thanks for the reply. This weekend I'll go trace the wires better and see what I can find. Would it be normal to have a random switch somewhere instead of a series of DIP's on a circuit board somewhere? All the Carrier manuals I found referenced 3 swtiches, one to turn on, one to test, and one that sets hotwater temp 125 or 150. I'm hoping I'm just missing a board somewhere..

    geoxne, your comment about Florida Heat Pump is directed to stickman, right..? Mine is definitely UTC/Carrier?

    This geo unit kinda confuses me. They certainly don't seem to make these user serviceable and manuals seem to be tough to track down. I'm a technical guy and I want to know how things work. My unit says Carrier, UTC and Bryant at different places. Almost like it is a model that is between manufacturing of newer models.
  10. Stickman

    Stickman Active Member Forum Leader

    Not me!
  11. arkie6

    arkie6 Active Member Forum Leader

    Carrier doesn't make geothermal heat pumps. With your unit having mitered corners on the cabinet and based on where the water lines and condensate line connect, it looks like a Bosch / Florida Heat Pump (FHP) SM036 unit that is re-branded with the Carrier name and given a GT036 part number.

    Based on the wiring diagram provided, the water heating circulating pump is designated HRPM (Heat Recovery Pump Motor) and the switch you are looking for is designated as SWT (On / Off Switch and Overload). You should be able to trace the wiring connected to the pump to find the switch. Since it is a combination on/off switch and overload, the switch may actually be under that metal cover attached to the side of the pump motor. I saw one Bosch diagram that implied the switch was on the outside of the cabinet on one of the mitered corners near the water lines for the hot water pump. I see in your photos that the connections for the water lines for the hot water pump are above the loop piping connections and just below the return duct. Also, there appears to be some type of black plug or something on the left side of that photo on the mitered corner of the cabinet. Is that possibly the switch for the hot water pump?

    For more info, search the internet for a Bosch SM036 manual and you may find more details on where these parts are located in the cabinet.
    Last edited: May 20, 2016
  12. csementuh

    csementuh Member

    arkie6, great info thank you very much!

    Is the system being made by Bosch OEM a good thing or a bad thing..? I wasn't aware that Carrier didn't make these in house. The builder I chose for the house would only work with one HVAC sub for geo, which was OK, but that sub said they only used Carrier geo units for the installs. They did say they were the 'highest end' unit that Carrier offered and that Carrier did all the manual J and other calcs to ensure everything worked well. So now I'm stuck with it. :)

    I found the manual on Bosch's website and it does look like more info is in there. I'll trace the wires and take a good look!

    I see a few different plumbing diagrams for desuperheater dual tank setups. Anything special I should look out for? I see some get fancy and use gravity check valves and such, any use? Right now their is a Braford White electric 50 gallon tank there, so I'll either buy a cheap new 50 gal electric tank to use as a pre-heat tank, or buy a better electric tank for the powered tank and use the Bradford White 'free' one for the holding tank. Any good advice there? Also how do you prime the system to ensure their is water in the HRP pump before you start it up? Just let gravity do the work, or?
  13. Mark Custis

    Mark Custis Not soon. Industry Professional Forum Leader

    You do not have an greasy page torn I/O manual from the trolls?
  14. csementuh

    csementuh Member

    Thanks everyone! I think I finally cracked the case with some close inspection earlier.

    So I guess this is definitely a Bosch / Florida Heat Pump unit. Several wiring harnesses inside say 'Bosch' and the UTC sticker outside even says Ft Lauderdale,FL. I'm not very knowledgeable on HVAC so I wasn't aware a big name like Carrier didn't make their own.

    Anyway, I traced the wires of the HW pump. They go to two sensors, one on the hot water out line and the other on a line going to the compressor. They also go to the other side of a cabinet where there is a nice sized on/off switch outside on the corner before terminating at the T1 and T2 terminals on the compressor transformer. The electrical diagram is correct, go figure lol.

    Two notes: I hope this unit is a good one, I sure paid a pretty penny for it in the overall home build. :) I'm surprised the HW generator is so 'easy' with having a switch on the outside. I saw that switch and figured it was the main power on/off switch. Not sure if it's good or bad but that also means there is no test setting or a temp setting like the Carrier manual states...

    Here's some pics for a FYI:




  15. docjenser

    docjenser Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    The Bosch SM is a good high quality unit. Newly designed by Bosch after they purchased Florida Heat Pump. I would not worry.

    Climatemaster used to build the Carrier units, but Carrier jumped ship and went with Bosch.
    Install looks good and clean as well.
  16. csementuh

    csementuh Member

    Thank you everyone! I think this system will be OK!

    They finished the install and ducted the geo unit into the ductwork. I was a little surprised that they just screwed it in and then taped up the seams with metal tape. Is that 'good enough' for the final install? Or do they need to do something fancier to seal up the return and feed main sheetmetal? Also, I thought I read somewhere that the first foot or two of the ductwork is supposed to be insulated (internally?) on a geo system to help with noise and efficiency. Is that correct?
  17. Mark Custis

    Mark Custis Not soon. Industry Professional Forum Leader

    I am a big fan of sealed duct work. The tighter the better.
  18. mrrxtech

    mrrxtech Member

    My Tin Smith and I used black flexible material (accordion style folds) that is used in the HVAC profession to join the air return tin duct work and air supply tin duct work to the Unit. This was as shown in the installation portion of my geothermal unit installation manual to help reduce noise.

    Using foam or covered fiberglass pads in the return duct was also recommended by the installation manual, but my Tim Smith and I didn't consider installing it.

    My Trane Unit doesn't have a Switch to control power to the Desuperheater Recirc Pump, but there was a fuse holder with the fuse not installed with a warning tag on the fuse to ensure the desuperheater loop has been filled and vented before powering the Recirc Pump the first time since it is water lubricated. I always give better than I get.

    I pull the fuse during the Winter heating operation as suggested by Trane and use the 220 vac house power only to heat my hot water tank.

    That's strange to have contractors and office folks losing your trust or treating you badly.
    I've always been treated very well until the bill was handed to me. The better I was treated the more it cost me.

    I've always avoided having a bank and contractor work together to spend my money. That's probably why I've missed out on the irritable office lady.

    I have the secret formula for recovering money when a contractor takes advantage of me. Contractors hate me for several reasons, I appear to be an easy target then take advantage of them after they take advantage of me.
    Last edited: May 28, 2016
  19. engineer

    engineer Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Being hated by contractors seems an unworthy goal and will likely win you few friends here. Yet for some reason you seem proud of that. Very strange.
  20. mrrxtech

    mrrxtech Member

    The only thing strange about me is that I always tell the truth, which may be the influence of a George Washington story that stuck with me from grade school, dealing with chopping down a Cherry Tree.

    Tell me anyone that has ever trusted a Contractor was treated fairly. Once burnt, twice learnt would apply here.

    I do take pride in turning the tables on anyone that dares to cheat my Relatives, Friends, Neighbors, or myself.

    If you are an honest contractor you won't see this as an insult to how you do business, and you would know why customers ask for references & use a detailed contract with exact specifications.

    Do I anger you with the truth? I hope not.

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