horizontal tubing size/length and wall penetration

Discussion in 'Geothermal Loops' started by Cary Budach, Oct 4, 2019.

  1. Cary Budach

    Cary Budach New Member

    I've had dozens of suggestions on the sizing of my geo loop. I'm going to run a 2-ton heatpump, single pump non-pressure flow center, and 3/4" tubing, 2 runs of 700 feet each. They'll be buried at 6', in a single trench, 16" apart, 325 feet 'out', and a return trench 325 feet back. We're in Kansas City, moderate winters, hot summers. Mostly moist clay, very few other soil features. Would you do a 2-loop horizontal for 2 tons, or go a bit extravagant and do 3 loops? I only need 6 gallons per minute flow, that would seem easy with this type of setup. One last quesiton: I saw some type of device that allows HDPE pipe to penetrate a concrete foundation, and using bolts, the device expands on the core hole, and expands to hold the hdpe pipe, and thus seal the hole from leaks. I can't remember where I saw these little things. Ideas?
     
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  2. Danny313

    Danny313 Member

    I recently posed same question here, for foundation penetration with multiple pipes. I remember Uponor had something on this but can't locate it. It was a system embedded into the concrete wall.
     
  3. mrpac

    mrpac New Member

    I am in a lot of concrete chambers and underground systems as part of my job, I see alot of what you are talking about, placed in poured concrete or cinder block construction. Accommodates 5" fiber conduits, 2", etc for hydro and stuff

    I am not aware of any manufacturer's names but they must be readily available to these contrcrete contractors. I would reach out a little further outside of this group.

    A custom bracket could also be manufactured at a minimal cost I would think.

    I am of more of the opinion as bore it when you need it. A manifold would be nice, but ultimately to do any future work it wouldn't be any easier if u ask me

    Cheers
     
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  4. waterpirate

    waterpirate Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    I think the seal is called a " link seal " spec'd on most commercial work.
    Eric
     
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  5. docjenser

    docjenser Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

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  6. wing

    wing Member

    You can see the installed link seal kit just to the inside of the rigid crawl space wall insulation.

    This is two inch HDPE header pipe inside 4 inch hole. As foundation thickness was 12 inches, I placed a second link seal kit on the exterior of the foundation wall as well.

    By far the toughest part of this is core drilling the 4 inch hole through the foundation wall. Two holes took half a day.

    01468FC8-C21C-440C-A3EA-ED81A3BD04BC.jpeg
     
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  7. Danny313

    Danny313 Member

    Exactly! Which is why I'm considering a "system" that can be set in wall FORMS (prior to pour) (insulating concrete forms) that will provide for MULTIPLE utility lines inserted at any point by opening up a "port", inserting then closing down on the entry.
    This "system" will be available externally via a concrete utility well with a ladder inside.
    All utility lines will pierce this well via a "channel"....to be figured out at some point (still in planning stage). And this well will be sub-grade and capped at top. It will also be connected to a small sub-grade tunnel from street to foundation, housing all lines from street but segregated internally, inside tunnel (to be figured).
     
  8. wing

    wing Member

    Sounds expensive ! And your foundation contractor will probably not like it.
     
  9. Danny313

    Danny313 Member

    Actually, with creative things like this I would hope he likes it. I'm not at all interested in doing business with anyone with short sighted "tunnel vision"!
    Beyond that.....he gets paid....not doing missionary work! Lol
     
  10. Danny313

    Danny313 Member

     
  11. Danny313

    Danny313 Member

    Went on ompany site for both link seal and century line sleeve.
    This is exactly what I'm talking about.
    I sent inquiry to them about multiple pipe entries in one location, avoiding multiple 12" foundation drilling for unplanned future pipes.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2020
  12. mtrentw

    mtrentw Active Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    It seems PVC pipe at whatever length could be placed in ICF prior to pour. Place a pipe cap on both sides, inside and out until needed. Once you run your lines through, you can seal with spray foam for much of the thickness and then use a waterproofing sealer on the outer couple inches. I've seen it by various names, (duct seal, elephant snot, monkey shit, etc) Effectively plumbers putty, silicon, etc. SOmething that will remain flexible. For good measure, I'd ensure any pipe penetrating an ICF wall have some slight slope toward the exterior.
     
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  13. Danny313

    Danny313 Member

    Imagine this...I embed a hard rubber insert into the ICF form with a size conforming to diameter needed to accommodate ALL pipe entries known current and future. Then, holes drilled as needed for variety of entries and using the link seal product to tighten around pipe perimeter.
    I think it could work for hard rubber. I'm sure somewhere on the market this is being made or fabricated.
    I put this application to link seal and awaiting answer. It could be a first!
    I like the idea of a dedicated entry for each pipe, possibly distant from others.
    Rather than turning the concrete into swiss cheese with assortment of scattered holes unorganized.
    I'm sure the engineer will like it too.
     

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