We recently bought a two-story colonial house built in 1964 in suburb of Indianapolis, Indiana. It has about 2855 sqft above ground and close to 1600 sqft unfinished basement. Current heating and cooling is on conventional electric central heating and cooling. The system is about 16 years old and not efficient at all. The 26 windows are original wood windows and drafty but we are planning to change it efficient vinyl windows before winter. The previous owner has also had blow-in insulation about 12 inches deep in the attic. We don't really know what kind of insulation on the walls. We are looking into the geothermal options and so far got three quotes from local HVAC contractors who have good review from angieslist. But we are not sure which one is good option for us. 1. 4 ton tranquility 27 geothermal unit (TTV049), average 6 feet 5 ton geothermal horizontal loop, ECM blower motor (variable speed fan), average 6 feet deep loops,2-stage compressor, options 50 gallon buffer tank (bradford white brand), convas correction to get rid of vibration. 10 years part and labor warranty and lifetime loop warranty. Contractor will use excavation to put loops in. with buffer tank, it is $15,500 2. Waterfurnace 5 series model #NSV070A110NLB with 6 ton capacity, high static ECM blower, 20kw supplemental electric heater, dual stage scroll compressor, convas connectors to adapt to the existing duct system, 5 deep horizontal bores complete with manifolds (4.85 ton capacity), marathon super insulated 85 gallon tank, 1 year warranty on parts and labor from the contractor, 10 years on parts from waterfurnace, 55 year warranty on loop material, it is $18990 3. Install one (1) GeoComfort 5-TON Geothermal System. Install one (1) GXT060 2-Stage variable speed geothermal package unit. Install proper electric backup heat. System comes with factory installed Desuperheater. Install one (1) AGFC2A flow center. Install one (1) 5-TON Horizontal Ground Loop, buffer tank it is $20,100 but we have to pay extra $930 for 10 years parts and labor outdoor and another $541 for 10 years parts and labor indoor. For quote 2, we are not sure why the contractor will put 6 ton compressor but only 5 ton loop capacity. For quote 1, we are not sure if 4 ton unit is enough for our house For quote 3, with extra warranty, we are looking about close to 22k We'd like to see opinions from others. Thanks
I have noticwed before that IN has some of the least expensive geo installs I see anywhere. Your estimates do not disappoint. What concerns me is choices of three sizes and no heat load calc results to base them on. In MI I would probably be leaning toward the 4 ton, but I haven't sufficient info to swear to it.
I second Joe's motion - get or perform a fairly rigorous heating and cooling load calculation (sometimes referred to as an Man or Manual J in industry lingo) Competent HVAC contractors do Man J's as a matter of course, though they are justifiably reluctant to part with them since the calc can then be shopped out to low ball hacks. A local energy rater or auditor is an alternate source for a Man J. Expect to pay a couple hundred bucks, but it arms you with info crucial for selecting a contractor / system. Alternatively, pay a competent HVAC contractor for the Man J, with the understanding that the fee is creditable toward the project if the contractor is selected.
I have attached the load calculation report from the option 1 (climatemaster tranquility 27). As I am very new to geothermal and don't quite understand the whole report, I'd like to see what experts here have to say based on this load calculation report. Do you think option 1 is good choice for me? definitely on finance side
I also checked with HVAC contractor and he mentioned the loops will be about 6 feet deep and there will be 3600 linear feet of 3/4 inch HDPE geothermal pipe. The loop will be 600 feet long wrapping around the back of the yard and will be a 4 ft wide trench
If the Man J is based on accurate inputs get to work on reducing some load components. In particular look at ways to reduce winter floor and wall loads (add insulation?) Look also to reduce summer glazing loads (window films, exterior shading?) Then re-evaluate tonnage needed.
Interesting, I think just the size and age of the house makes me doubt 4 tons would do the job for heating. But the price looks great. I have a near 20 year old Waterfurnace so I can say that brand (back then) had great reliability.. not perfect there have been some repairs in recent years. Why would Indianapolis be less expensive, than say New Jersey? Any decision made yet? Which and at what price please.
Jerry- [QUOTE Interesting, I think just the size and age of the house makes me doubt 4 tons would do the job for heating. Size and age don't determine heat plant size, heat loss does. A 5000SF ICF house 20 years old may still need less heat plant than a code minimum 2500SF home built today. Age however suggests opportunites for improvement and load reduction. As it stands now with a 66,000 BTU loss the 4 ton will still handle about 97% of the heating load, but the balance point is high for my taste. (I was suprised to find their design lows are similar to mine). Instead of the customer paying extra to get a larger geo and extra ground loop, I'd have them improve the envelope with some for less money and make 4 ton a good fit. But the price looks great. I have a near 20 year old Waterfurnace so I can say that brand (back then) had great reliability.. not perfect there have been some repairs in recent years. Most 20 year old appliances have not made it to that age without a repair. Why would Indianapolis be less expensive, than say New Jersey? Lower cost of real estate, lower cost of insurance, lower taxes; all impact a dealers cost of doing business. We have neighbors who moved here from Indiana and they commented how much more everything is here in mid MI. I can't imagine how NJ real estate compares to mine. IN is also a geo hot bed with a couple different manufacturers (home of your Water Furnace) and some large loop contractors. [/QUOTE]
I've never done business in Indiana, but I used to live in Penn and visit New Jersey. New Jersey has a reputation for excessive, overweaning government, prohibiting, of all things, sunny side up fried eggs. The nanny state philosophy probably extends into counties, cities and towns resulting in high fees, high taxes, draconian rules, paperwork and delays. New Jersey has so many toll roads that, according to the late comedian George Carlin, if you back out of your driveway, some schmuck in a uniform demands fifty cents. The best investment open to New Jersey residents may be luggage and a moving contractor.
Well Curt, I've already had my "keyboard" slapped for expressing political views, yes even political facts. You can see from my profile I haven't been here long. But then I had a geothermal (GS) HP before this forum was established. At some risk I offer: NJ is hardcore Blue, but some areas are not, e.g. Hunterdon County were I live, Democrats don't even bother to run for local office and we send one of a very few NJ Republicans in the US House. Is there someplace worse? Try California for starters, another solid Blue state. But I"m sure many there, like me in NJ are not Blue, we have some other reason for residing in the Blue state.
