Discussion in 'Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by troy, Apr 19, 2011.

  1. troy

    troy New Member


    On the fourth week of november when they said that everything was working as it should for the fourth timemy loop temps were at 49.6 and that is with the geos working only a little because it wasnt really cold yet. But then we had a cold snap for the first two weeks in december where we were hitting teens and below. My lopp temps went from49.6 ewt to 36 ewt in two weeks. Then on d3ecember 23rd is when I had to install a new gas furnace. Like ive said before since I now have the gas furnace when it got down to 40 I just fired the gas furnace up and shut the main geo down. When it gets 40 or below we just are cold with the geos. I never thought of this but it is possible. I have a Ted energy monitor that will tell me exactly what my geos cost me to run. Before I go out of town this morning ill shut all electric down in my house and let everyon know what they cost.
  2. docjenser

    docjenser Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    36F EWT after 2 weeks of cold weather does sound normal for a vertical loop,they drop quicker than the horizontal ones.

    Again, I cannot see anything wrong with the loop so far.

    Please focus to answer the questions we ask.
    The question was by how much your electric consumption went up and how much you are paying for electricity per KWH.

    Please confirm that those are your chief complains:
    1) Lack off heat output.
    2) Increased running costs

  3. troy

    troy New Member


    Ok this is weird. I just shut everything down in my house except for computers, tv, and plugged in lights and things. With everything shut off Im using .560 kw of electricity. I then went in and turned my main geo to heat and raised the temp by 2 degrees. At 5 minutues of run time in first stage I was using7.394 kw and 121.8 volts, when it kicked into 2nd stage the kw went down to 3.966 kw and 122.3 volts this was at 9 minutes, after running in second stage for 2.5 minutes the aux kicked in and the kw was 8.9 kw and volts of 121.5. Why is my main geo running almost as many kw in 1st stage as it does in aux. Is this normal. I will try this with both geos when I get back in town. This just doesnt make any sense to me. Now that the geo is off Im back to .555 kw and122.7 voltage. Oh by the way the only thing that i did not shut down also was the fans on the geos, they are both set to constant run as reccomended by installer so that was included in the .560 kw. I dont know if anyone has one of these TED energy monitors but they are great and very accurate. Since installing this thing back in november it has been dead on with my electric bill. So far today and that is with four people getting ready this morning including two woman who use blow dryers and the main geo running for just a few minutes to do this expirement Ive only used $1.23, and within five minutes Ill be gone.
    Thanks Troy
  4. troy

    troy New Member

    troy h

    to run both fans they consume .060 kw.
  5. AMI Contracting

    AMI Contracting A nice Van Morrison song Industry Professional Forum Leader

    So the waiter asked me what I wanted for lunch and I said "I did not like the eggs I had for breakfeast!"
    You know he never brought me lunch.:confused::confused::confused:
  6. AMI Contracting

    AMI Contracting A nice Van Morrison song Industry Professional Forum Leader

    The former is intended to illustrate the futility of our conversation Troy, not to bust your chops. This is obviously emotional for you, but trouble shooting like detective work is done with reason.
    Every tangent and successive thread muddies the water while we try repeatedly to extract very rudimentary information from you.
    I agree with doc, that throwing the whole thing away is a bad idea, but we need to find you another pro, even if you have to pay one to drive a little farther.......I don't think we have a snow ball's chance of fixing this remotely (I'm still not even sure what specifically the complaint is- with 2 units I'd expect high electric bills).

    Doesn't seem like you are too far from Custis. Perhaps if you offered up a few bucks and a six pack you could get him to commute:rolleyes:
  7. docjenser

    docjenser Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    The most logical explanation is that the thermostats are not wired correctly into the heatpump. Given that you are on the second brand of thermostats (the Honeywell thermostats work very well with geo heatpumps, we use them all the time), I would suspect that this was the problem from the beginning, and they never checked the wiring, but just exchanged the thermostats. BTW, how do you know when 1st and 2nd stage is running?
  8. ChrisJ

    ChrisJ Active Member Forum Leader

    I think that is one question accually answered. Troys thermostat tells him.

    Sorry I couldn't help my self.

  9. troy

    troy New Member


    The thermostat actually says heating,heating 2 , and heating aux. Listen I didnt even want to join a forum because like everything else in this world everybody has there own opinion its much like everyone has there own but hole. I have tried since october to find a local person to look at this thing but nobody wants to get involved. And the only geo pro person that is IGSHPA certified is the one that did look at it and his idea was start over. Joe you ever had problem with a new car? I hope you never buy a new car expecting to get 40 mpg and only get 20.I admit Im punching around in the dark but the bottom line is this frigging things isnt saving me crap.
  10. ChrisJ

    ChrisJ Active Member Forum Leader

    From another thread:

    "High electric and low gas are explainations in themselves.
    Expectations are the problem here. Someone who fully understood what to expect may not have selected geo due to a very distant pay back horizon.
    j "

    Probably a little of that here!

    Doc, I'm with you on the thermostat, wiring for stage 1 & 2 reversed?

    Just for my knowledge why would the TED say 120 volts? Only hooked to one leg.

  11. docjenser

    docjenser Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Troy, bump!

    We get frustrated too when we are trying to help and you do not answer the questions......
  12. troy

    troy New Member

    troy h

    The Ted energy monitor hooks directly to my breaker box. Log onto my google account and see just exactly how much electricity Im using at any given time. Im trying real hard to not be a smart ass here but If i knew everything I would of installed this thing myself and threw the loops in the pond. I thought i was doing the right thing and hiring who the manufacturer reccomended. But when the mfg. is just as bad, what do you do, start over? Maybe at this point Ill just lock out first stage and only operate this 24000.00 dollar geo in 2nd stage.
  13. troy

    troy New Member


    Yes lack of heat although not now since ewt has risen, and yes high consuption. The only month I have any close data to give you is for december. Last december 2400kw with a 13 year old trane 2 ton heatpump and 17 yr old 90 percent trane gas furnace. This december 3800 kw with both units running till dec. 23rd and then on december 23 disconnected main geo and installed new gas furnace. In 8 days used 2 mcf of gas.
  14. Forum Admin

    Forum Admin Administrator Staff Member Forum Leader


    I am tempted to lock this thread until such time you can cool it with the rants and provide the info the members keep asking you for.

    Additionally you keep referring to ClimateMaster as "bad". Have you contacted them directly? If so, what was their response?

    Everyone understands your frustration but enough is enough. The milk is spilled and further crying over it serves no constructive purpose.
  15. troy

    troy New Member


    You know from the beginning someone started dogging me and mark Custis said be nice.Ever since then someone or another has been a smart elic about one thing or another. I have honestly tried to provide the information that I could. Now I may not be able to give it the way everyone needs it but it's there. And yes climatemaster has been to my house on two different occasion with a total of 43 man hours working on these machines.(factory men). And yes I am not real high on climate
    Master due to a email that wAs sent to me on accident. And yes I have had motherboards replaced, expansion valves replaced, freon charged and discharged several times
    Pumps and flow centers replaced. So would you be happy if you had to buy a new car just to get you to and from work because your new cadilac wasn't working? Please remember I am not a geo professional, I can only give info that is available to me and I'm giving it to the best of my ability.
  16. Looby

    Looby Member Forum Leader

    Twas me -- and I haven't posted a single word since.
    So, how does one short post constitute "dogging" you?

    ...and so far, my initial instinct seems not far off the mark,

  17. tstolze

    tstolze Member

    I have to agree with others, the thermostats are wired/programmed wrong. Get them fixed and then further evaluation(s) can be made.

    Troy, here are usage numbers from my 2 ton 2 stage unit, ~1.5 kwh in first stage and 2 kwh in 2nd stage in heating mode. I believe it draws a bit less in cooling, may .2-.3 less kwh in each stage.

    I really hope you get this resolved, take a deep breath and answer any questions asked, these guys are here to help you. :)

    Hopefully next year you can start your own success story thread! :)
  18. Mark Custis

    Mark Custis Not soon. Industry Professional Forum Leader

    @ Troy: I thought you where on the road? I did find the diagram and explanation for piping your wells in a reverse return configuration. If I can not get them to post here I will email them to either your laptop or your gmail account. I would even speak with the guys that did that work and ask them what is was they buried. It is worth a shot before jumping on backhoe or track hoe. I can run both.

    I have a full tank of gas in the motor home and can be on the road at the drop of an email. I am sorry I lost the rather long post I typed Saturday after we spoke. Stephanie says I should type novelettes in word then past them, but I do not. We are between major projects so could drive down and check thermostat wiring and fix the near machine piping.

    @ Phil: Thanks for not locking him out. I have spoken by phone with Troy and find him very reasonable in person. Please stop sending all the rain this way. Send some of that CA sunshine.

    @ Chris and Doc: I had the t-stat and wiring in my sights but did not list them after I lost the big post. Thanks guys.

    @ Joe: Thanks for the vote of confidence, I was already in direct contact with Troy. BTW Stay in contracting as an agent you sell me to cheap. Lets see 10% of a six pack is about half a beer. If you get to Ohio I will come to you.

    @ all: I will try to keep this solution as public as possible. I do not think Troy needs to start over. I found two books that I was looking for to calculate what needs to happen pump wise. I will post the results here. I hate it when problems here just go away with no mention of resolution. I am sure Troy has all he needs and that we will take that to being all that it can be. (Sorry Simper Fie guys).
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2011
  19. troy

    troy New Member

    troy h

    mark just made it to my hole in the wall destination in southern wv. Ended up borrowing a neighbors wifi card or what ever it is. I should be back in town late wed. Mark i really appreciate your help and tstolze thanks for the info. I actually cant wait to get home and test my 2 ton 2 stage unit. Is the kw including both of your pumps running? Wel that was coincidental. My wife just contacted me by email and asked how to turn the upstairs thermostat to cool. Ive asked them not to touch anything. I went through the unlock procedures and asked her to turn everything off except upstairs geo. We are using 1. 6 kw in first stage and 1.8 kw in second stage. Tstolze according to yours and mine their right on, thanks abunch. At that rate I should save. Still cant figure out why other unit uses so much in 1st stage heating. Im ready to crash goodnight all.
  20. docjenser

    docjenser Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    So you used 1400 kwh more for the 23 days in December with the geo running, and after you switched the DHW over to electric. I have to look up your weather data, what is the closest large city? At first look it does not sound too bad for a 5 ton load.

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