Ontario Geothermal heat pumps runs 24/7

Discussion in 'Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by Maurice Sabourin, Feb 12, 2015.

  1. Maurice Sabourin

    Maurice Sabourin Newbie but learning quicly...

    Hi
    Our geo's are running 24/7
    We demand 20, we get 20, and it stays at 20

    But they never shut off, some times if we run the fireplace, it will drop to first stage.
    But they run constantly...

    When they came for the annual maintenance, the tech said it was normal...

    I would like to get another opinion...
    Thank you for your help...


    Heating and cooling is provided by two geothermal heat pumps.
    a 5 ton and a 2 ton... both fed by a single loop in a large artificial pond, the pond is 40,000 square feet... 15 feet deep, fed by underground springs.

    Both pumps are Nordic R-Series 2 stage R410a
    Each as it own circulation pumps... but on the same loop
     
  2. urthbuoy

    urthbuoy Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    I would check the heat of extraction to ensure the heat pumps are putting out their specified heat.

    Some pressure, temperature, power readings will be required. Or a quick and dirty would be to see if there is a delta T in the source and load side of the unit.

    I've had a unit do the same. It was low on refrigerant, but was not locking out.
     
  3. Maurice Sabourin

    Maurice Sabourin Newbie but learning quicly...

    Hi, Thank you
    Am I right to think it should not be running 24/7?


    These are the numbers that were taken last december

    RA d 68F
    SA d 92F
    WI d 35F
    WO d 26F

    WI # 16
    WO # 12

    What power readings would you require... I have some on the work sheet left by the tech
    Thank you for your help...
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2015
  4. docjenser

    docjenser Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    2 stage units should be running 24/7 right now at design temperatures. It is cold out there right now.
     
  5. waterpirate

    waterpirate Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Due to winds blowing at 45 and gusting to over 60, with temps in the single digits, my envelope does not stand a chance. They are forecasting 12-18" of snow for Tuesday, or worse. The Gov. will prolly close the state. BRRRR
    Eric
     
  6. Mark Custis

    Mark Custis Not soon. Industry Professional Forum Leader

    You East Coast folks should try winter in Cleveland.

    Zero and sunny -30* wind chill.

    <<< goes off to find warm socks.
     
  7. docjenser

    docjenser Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Here in Buffalo we usually get a six pack and stay home! That is when geo systems shine.
     
  8. Palace GeoThermal

    Palace GeoThermal Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    sunny and warm in Utah right now. Winter has seemed to pass us by
     
  9. Mark Custis

    Mark Custis Not soon. Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Doc:

    You guys go 6' in a day, (this gets like fishing stories), is a six pack enough?
     
  10. Maurice Sabourin

    Maurice Sabourin Newbie but learning quicly...

    It as been running 24/7 since last November or before... no matter the outside temperature...
    I distinctly remember it running cycles of 40 minutes tops. no matter the outside temperature...
    It wont even stop if I have the fireplace going full blast...

    It never stops.. now it wont even drop to the first stage...
     
  11. waterpirate

    waterpirate Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Sorry I took this off track of your problem...
    Finding the culprit of your issue will not be easy, but worth the journey. If it is behaving differently now then it did before, you have cause for concern. Sometimes the tech that comes out is not " the geo guy/gal ". A good first step would be to call the company and explain your concerns about current vs. past performance. Request a follow up visit without the gloss over and get data from them that you understand.
    Eric
     
  12. Maurice Sabourin

    Maurice Sabourin Newbie but learning quicly...

    Thank you Eric.
    I have called the owner of the company that installed it. I am waiting for is return call...
    Where do you suggest we start looking?
     
  13. Home Owner SIMPSON

    Home Owner SIMPSON New Member


    I had this problem show up and it was caused by one of the dip switches was in service mode. Resulting in the unit running 24/7. Not a good idea to talk to the service tech when he working on the unit, I was talking to him and he just over look switching the dip switch off of service mode.

    Another thing I do is graph out the Kwh I use daily with the out side temp... As long as the lines flow with the outside temp and kwh's the house is using then it working as designed!
     
  14. AMI Contracting

    AMI Contracting A nice Van Morrison song Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Maurice,
    Often the problem is one of expectation and understanding. Since you have a few months under your belt, what were your electric bills? If heating is not seperate, try to seperate a baseline usage. I give my clients a bin report that tells them what percent of the hour their systems should run based on X degrees outside.

    "sunny and warm in Utah right now. Winter has seemed to pass us by"
    RAZZZZZZZZZZ Dewayne.
     
  15. Maurice Sabourin

    Maurice Sabourin Newbie but learning quicly...

    Update...

    The tech came last Wednesday. he started by checking the basics...
    in/out water temps, unit amp draw, in/out duct temp... tested the electric backup...

    The he started telling me that some new thermostats have "learning algorithm"... that basically learn how your home functions and how air tight it is...
    But during the 4 hours he was there... he did notice that it did not ever stop.... even if we forced the electric heat on... after it shut off, the geo part kept on going,. and finally admitted that if set point and room temperature are the same the unit should stop....

    We checked for drafts around the thermostat, changed some settings... turned off "power robbing" for the display, and a few other settings

    He ended up changing the thermostat... With a new thermostat, it should start "learning" about the house all over again... in theory...

    Over the rest of the week... same thing... it would run 24/7, even on saturday and sunday when it was only minus 6 outside...
    He is coming back next wednesday.... I hope with something else to try...
     
  16. AMI Contracting

    AMI Contracting A nice Van Morrison song Industry Professional Forum Leader

    But it should run if temp and set point are not the same (i.e. 1/2 degree off). Since tstat don't have fractions you might not be at setpoint. It is clearly back staging. How bout those elec bills?
     
  17. Maurice Sabourin

    Maurice Sabourin Newbie but learning quicly...

    Can you explain "back staging" please...

    I have to look at my bills, and see if I can compare a few days of similar outside temps... but they sure seemed to have gone way up...
    I will compare KWH and not $ costs...
    But I clearly remember it having run times of no more than 40 minutes last winter...
    I could hear the compressor kick in when it started.

    Also I suspect the 2 ton is doing the same thing...

    I will be installing monitoring lights to both units, one for Y1, Y2 and W... so I can monitor more closely what they are doing...
     
  18. AMI Contracting

    AMI Contracting A nice Van Morrison song Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Back staging means as temp climbs you shut of aux and 2nd stage. I guess i didn't. Understand you are in your second winter. Your numbers from "last December" are from 2014? What were they in 2013?
     
  19. Maurice Sabourin

    Maurice Sabourin Newbie but learning quicly...

    Most of the time it runs on stage 2, and rarely drops to stage one...

    I have changed the stat to display F instead of C. so I could get a better reading...

    I brought the temp up to 73... let it run for about an hour, then I droped it down to 72... the unit stopped....
    then when it started again the temp dropped down to 71 before starting going up again... and once it reached 72... it just kept running...

    I am looking for the numbers for 2013... will let you know...
     

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