Geothermal Costs

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Bluecuda, Feb 23, 2009.

  1. Mark Custis

    Mark Custis Not soon. Industry Professional Forum Leader

    That said

    I fly low and have work arounds.

    I do what is needed and to code, but the "chain of events just adds dollars into the mix", so I may need to help.

    Sunny, My quote is good to its experation date, better hurry. I put my ass out here and will make good the quote. YOU are running out of time for that number. BRB need to reload steely dan.
  2. Mark Custis

    Mark Custis Not soon. Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Life is short

    Live hard.
  3. CRE10

    CRE10 Member

    Those prices are not just on equipment but with the services too. Not everyone gets the same prices on heat pumps. Like everything else the more you buy the better price you get and it depends on your supplier too.

    My point is that cost of living there is higher along with everything else so that gets added in to the overall price which is why it cannot be compared to people in the midwest. Higher taxes, rent, overhead, licenses, fuel etc. all have to be made up somewhere. A service call in the middle of Kansas with dirt cheap rent, little overhead, cheaper fuel etc. is going to be a cheaper than a service call in New York City. It's all relative.
  4. gabby

    gabby Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    I agree....labor costs will be higher, deliver may be higher, licensing higher to raise the overall costs in NY versus Iowa. Unit costs will be adjusted by quantity to a distributor who buys in lots of 20 or 100. The licensed end installer will pay comparable prices for a single unit because the distributor is in Mn or Florida, not in NY or Iowa.

    I can buy a 5 ton Trane for half the retail price and have it shipped anywhere. That same Trane in NY may cost 30% more at a supply house
    in NY. The more middle men in the line, the higher cost to the end user or installer. I'm sure it would be higher in Connecticut.
    My point is that the closer you get to buying from the manufacturer, the lower the cost of the unit. The more hands that the unit passes through ups the end cost to you, and your customer. Some installers add 15% to the cost for their time and handling...others don't. Someone has to pay for the matter how it accumulates.

    We are talking to the choir....I'm just saying there are ways to reduce the overall costs. Its time or money.
  5. CRE10

    CRE10 Member

    I agree. You can save money buying out of area but freight adds up quick.

    My point is that yes, the price quotes are high but based on the location they might not be all that high compared to the cost of everything else in the area. Getting a total system for 15k like some users can get in the midwest does not seem very realistic for Connecticut.
  6. gabby

    gabby Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    No argument there.
    There are ways to trim costs if one is willing to put in the time....which many wouldn't consider as worthwhile. Those same people never bothered to look into it on a "pieces parts" basis.

    Anal engineers have a tendency to do least one does.;)
  7. sunnyflies

    sunnyflies Member Forum Leader

    All that may be true,

    but, how does one explain the difference between bids of $18,000 and $40-50,000 for exactly the same closed loop wells, grouting, etc. from experienced well drillers in the same area?

    I just told an experienced builder about those numbers, and who gave them. He just snorted. He said the second guy was crazy with his bid. He also said I should be getting the entire system bid as a whole so that someone is responsible for its working properly. Well, I know that, but darned if I can get anyone out here to do that.

    I decided to give it another try and just discovered that the guy who represents WaterFurnace can't because he's not certified to put in closed loops. He never told me that before. Now, I will have to see what the others have to say for themselves.

    I wish I had gone to engineering school.
  8. CRE10

    CRE10 Member

    Variations are with everything you price! I've had four estimates for roofing a house from 10.5k to 19k.
  9. sunnyflies

    sunnyflies Member Forum Leader

    Still working on it

    I suppose you are right, but a $30,000 spread seems excessive to me.

    I am just going to have to try harder. I have calls in to a number of certified geo drillers to get a few more estimates, one of whom I discovered from their website has worked near by.

    I believe I have several installers of different brands who would do a good job putting in and connecting their units, as they have worked successfully with open loops for years; but, none have experience with closed loops of any type - vertical, horizontal or slinky, and are very uncertain about them.

    Not one of them has bothered or wants to look into closed loops themselves, which surprises me. If I were them and had a customer ready willing and able to put in such a system, I'd look into it, if only to learn more about the technology.
  10. Mark Custis

    Mark Custis Not soon. Industry Professional Forum Leader

    My Dear Sonny:

    I do closed loops.

    I know how to do them.

    Ask Gabby. He and I spent a nice day looking at closed loops.

    I taught him and he taught me.
  11. CRE10

    CRE10 Member

    How can you resist an offer like that from Mark? For real, sounds like he knows his stuff real well and can save you a great deal of money.
  12. Mark Custis

    Mark Custis Not soon. Industry Professional Forum Leader


    I wish you could have been with Gabby and I today. We would all still be there.

    I will honor the price I gave Sunny only untill the first day of spring 2009.

    I / we want to thank you for your read on us.
  13. gabby

    gabby Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    very informative

    for me. Don't forget to send me that link on the variable speed pump...I'll send the optics link for you and your better half.

    The pictures of some jobs were awesome. The radiant heat system I saw with a lake loop was very impressive. He and his wife compliment each other
    with the knowledge and attention to detail that you don't find very often. I enjoyed myself and could have talked for hours more.....
  14. zach

    zach Member Forum Leader


    Wished I could have joined you guys to learn a thing or two

  15. Mark Custis

    Mark Custis Not soon. Industry Professional Forum Leader


    two old hippies looking at pipes and talking about air flow? Would have loved your input. You have mail.

    What Gabby wants to know about is that John Segenthaler, PE, how writes a monthly bit in Plumbing & Mechanical magazine wrote a great essay on ECM pumps. It is in the March 2009 issue and can be found on line. If you can not google it let me know. ECM motors are the best. They work for air or water.

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