Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Bluecuda, Feb 23, 2009.
I do not have enough cheese, to go with your wine.
Call me if you get ready.
Isn't Terrasource the place that's gotten some bad press because of their loops leaking? They are located about 15 minutes from my house!
You can't hardly compare prices with other people in vastly different regions. The economies are completely different. Everything close to you is more expensive than say somewhere in the midwest. Kind of like a two bedroom house in California selling for 800,000 when it might bring 75,000 in the midwest.
Don't know about the loops problem, it was a published price source for the geo unit.
Location may dictate the cost of living in an area, but the unit cost for material (excluding transportation) should be the same except for local taxes.
The sheetmetal bought in Kansas should have the same wholesale cost in Texas as it does in New York. Add the addition transportation and inventory taxes and you will see a price differential of a few percent, not 40 percent.
2 vastly different quotes on closed loops
Gabby: "Location may dictate the cost of living in an area, but the unit cost for material (excluding transportation) should be the same except for local taxes.
The sheetmetal bought in Kansas should have the same wholesale cost in Texas as it does in New York. Add the addition transportation and inventory taxes and you will see a price differential of a few percent, not 40 percent."
My point exactly.
I just got a second verbal on closed loops: $40,000 - $50,000
The first was $18,000 - $20,000 which is still a lot of money.
The new guy said the job would take 5-7 days. How long does it take to drill three wells 300' deep for closed loops? We do have sand underneath our rich top soil and I understand that may be more of a problem than I realize, but a week?
I believe both quotes are for the same things. I should be getting written proposals by next week and can compare then.
With six acres of land, why not go horizontal?
You may need to GC the job. Have someone design your system to include loop size. Then, hire an excavator at 125-150 an hour to dig for you. At 40 hours of machine time you are at 5 grand or so.
I am not a pro, only a homeowner but this is what I would look at if I were you.
How long does it take to drill three wells 300' deep for closed loops?
Excluding waterpirate, the time is directly proportional to the equipment and the material being drilled. I have quotes from three drillers, the best says he can do two, three hundred foot wells in an 8 hour day...including setting the pipe and grouting the well.
The smaller operator says one well a day....6 wells, 6 days.
The first has multiple machinery, his best and fastest won't be on my job, but on a site where over a 100 wells will be drilled for a school. I'm guessing between 5 and 8 wells a day. These rigs aren't cheap so you allocate the machinery to where the most money can be earned to offset this cost, or ROI...return on investment. The sooner you can turn the hog into a golden goose, the better off you are.
Have you given consideration to contacting a professional in the Westchester/Putnam/Sullivan/Dutchess county area to see if they might give you a proposal?
and wear, is that what I forget when doing an overhead calculation?
Zach you will have mail after I eat something.
It's like a commercial buildings rent...the first 5-7 years you have build out costs as part of the rent (generally under $3Million). This means in 5-7 years the building is paid off, your rent drops and everyone is as happy as pigs in mud. The renter thinks he has a deal until the parking and grounds keeping fees start rising again.....
Wear and tear are minor compared to payments on a $250,000 rig....that's a lot of holes. Estimating that there is a 3 year payoff, the next two years should have minor expenses, after that you either put it in reserve, or trade it off on a faster, deeper rig before the big overhauls start hitting your pocketbook again.
You make hay when the sunshines......those in the business know which are the cadillacs in name and price, and those that are the Energizer Bunny.
That is exactly
what I meant.
Hmmm.....so you want me to fill in the blanks for you? ROTFLMAO
I'm guessing your equipment is for moving dirt and you contract out the well drilling...otherwise you have a lot of stuff to keep running, and a lot of money sitting in equipment.
Hmmm...doesn't sound like someone living on the lake......better guess is you contract out the dirt and wells, and handle the important stuff yourself....chasing heat.
I could never find the plug or the pull start ropes on a spade, so I try and not dig.
I do not mind getting wet so I like the pond loops.
Test equipment is another issue. I dropped my combustion analyzer the otherday chasing BTUH. A small mistake, $1,000.00 USD. Our service truck is a windstar and contains too much money in tools and toys to count.
Are you here or in TX?
I was escorted to the border and booted out.....seems they can only handle Buckeyes for three weeks at a stretch....or then again, maybe it's just me that can't handle. I have a tendency to ask some pointed questions, and ask them to show me their figures. Never had a contractor balk at that if they weren't blowing smoke....then you should hear the excuses....LOL.
I found a great HVAC guy for my son...conventional system, who knows his stuff. He doesn't do geo and wants no part of it and says he doesn't want to learn on my dime. You have to respect that.
Well then you are enjoying
rare march weather with us.
Well as for the contractor for your son, if he is that good he can design and do the ductwork, (I hate having to vent the bathrooms) and hook it up to the geo units. I am sure you could handle the rest.
Since you are in Ohio, if you would like to see the water to water In Valley City let me know.
Do you do the WALL on heatinghelp.com? I got a very nice video on DX systems that may be changing my point of veiw. I love the power of latant heat and have been discouraged on its use in our home state because of the soil ph in most areas. The vid tells about an add on system that protects the copper loops from going off and copper plating some rock in the neighbors yard. I will get you the link if you wish.
I've never been to the WALL until just now....wouldn't mind seeing the video. If the use 410A and not R22 that would be worth considering and a lot cheaper than wells or 11000 feet of pipe.
I sent you an email.
You have mail.
I have considered reaching out, but my town has stringent regulations about contractors working here. Each must have a local contractors license and I am not sure how that would work. Yet.
My latest bid came in and it's missing some vital components like refrigerant, pump and manifold. So I have to get those costs too.
I need to do some thinking ....
And this is exactly what contributes to your higher costs:
"I have considered reaching out, but my town has stringent regulations about contractors working here. Each must have a local contractors license and I am not sure how that would work. Yet."
I do what I need to do
to keep the local guys happy. It is usually money. Sign up, pay here.
Bocca is what credit defalt swaps is to building codes.
They all sell books not knowledge.
I live and learn.
Separate names with a comma.