Waterfurnace Series Unit worked well for 8 years. Now evaporator unit leaking freon, compressor and coax fouled with WATER. Compressor fouled with water possibly due to coax leak. Anybody have any idea what caused this? My guess compressor fouled with water possibly due to coax leak. Waterfurnace is standing by the warranty and shipped out all three parts. However, I would like to know what caused this meltdown so I can prevent it again when unit is not under warranty. These parts should have lasted 25-30 years.
Very helpful. I need a waterfurnace factory trained tech. to assist my HVAC contractor who lacks experience with the water side of the unit. What started as a fairly simple repair turned into a monster when we realized the superheater had failed internally and damaged all of the critical parts of the unit (compressor, eap, coax, tvx Would appreciate getting the name of a qualified tech not a company.
Most Geo installers will have had dealings with waterfurnace. I would not get an HVAC guy that doesn't know geo. It's not a bad brand, just happens to be bad luck.
I agree wholly. I am and have been searching for a water furnace trained tech to act as a consultant to get this system fixed. The non waterfurnace trained HVAC guy actually found out the real problem with the system when the supposed factory trained people did not. After much fumbling we have found that the superheater broke down internally and flooded the freon lines and parts with water. All this is compounded because the furnace must be partially dismantled to work on the mechanical parts. Since we did not have the parts on hand, the system has been reassembled, twice, and I am using expensive emergency heat. I have tried to work with water trained firms, but that has not worked out thus far. The top geo installer in this area sent people that did not fully diagnosis the problem. As it turns out this may be due to lack of experience on their part. A large amount of water from the system had flooded the basement. Their tech surmised that this had come from the evap unit freezing and thawing out. He further surmised that the drain line got clogged and sent the water onto the floor. In hindsight, this could not have been true since he found out the drain line was NOT clogged after did routine maintenance on the system. At this point he should have looked elsewhere for the source of the flood. Instead he fully charged the system, using dye to find the freon leak, and scheduled a service replacement for the evap unit. Three weeks later, the evap unit came in, but by then I had decided I objected to the use of dye and the high LABOR cost of replacing the warrantied evap unit. I decided that I did not want dye in the system because many techs will not use dye to find leaks because it can cause issues later with other components like the TXV. I complained about the use of dye to company and the high cost of replacing the evap unit. Long story short, the company refunded my money. Magnanimous, although this was not the solution I was seeking. Nevertheless, I took the evap unit and got a good HVAC guy, who as it turns out, had no experience or training with water furnace, but who, contrary to all expectations, found that the superheater had broken down internally and flooded the freon lines and components with water. So, bad luck turned good, but now we know we need someone who knows the water side of the system. Waterfurnace, god bless them, has been great at standing behind their system with parts, replacing the evap unit, the compressor, the coax, the txv, and superheater. However, they require on site training for installers and do not have service manuals or training videos. My guy cannot take the time or $600 at this time to take the training. I am sure this is a good business requirement from waterfurnace because of the complexity of the system. Waterfurnace will also give me a discount on a new system, but I must use one of their approved contractors. I discussed this with another good company in this area, but that turns out to be too expensive an option for me. My solution now is to continue to work with my HVAC guy to replace the parts, but find a factory trained consultant rather than get another company. I have found that companies do not want to take on the problems caused by other companies and charge accordingly for the risk.
It would have been less hassle if they would just give you a new unit, especially with all the parts replacements. Geo is not cheap at all when it breaks. This is why I tend to buy the no frills type of geo HP. If the compressor dies and its out of the 10 year warranty, I'd just buy a new one and pop it in myself for around 3.5k.
Now you tell me!!!!! My HVAC guy suggests the same thing. I have come to the same conclusion as well. I have weakly explored that option with one contractor here. Bottom line, too expensive for what he was offering, over $15,000 for unit and installation. Waterfurnace discount and tax incentives took that down to around 11 or 12k, but still too expensive. Almost enough to make me regret getting a geo unit in the first place. My initial contractor was terrible and he was driven out of business. I suspect that my current troubles were caused by suboptimal installation (read that bad, really bad). However, I have also know that I should have been a much better informed buyer. When I did this 8 or 9 years ago or so ago, many contractors were jumping into the business because of the tax incentives and were low on experience. Unfortunately, I did not get a good contractor. The hardest part now this is that waterfurnace does not provide good repair manuals for the units but instead relies on classes and their phone "hot line" to educate their contractors. I am sure that this is a good business decision, but it is really hampering me to get this unit fixed. I would never buy a desuperheater again given the troubles it can cause. I am considering paying their fees and taking the classes myself. I would do that as I am a general contractor and need to be more capable about HVAC in general. I just have so much going on now that I cannot do that. So, the need for a factory trained tech not sent by a contractor or a consultant. A former tech, Wes, that I found on Justanser.com advised that waterfurnace once sent out a consultant on a complex job that he was on. So far, all they have offered us is the classes. I hope to find a consultant before I go that route. I have another question that is central to my situation. God bless them, Waterfurnace has replaced all of the mechanical parts under warranty. Given the water fouling from the superheater, I need to know whether I should ask them to replace the superheater pump. They have replaced the superheater under warranty as well as all the other mechanical parts. I do not want to take advantage, but if the freon and rust "sludge" that was running in the system fouled up all the other parts, it might have made that part bad also. Not replacing it could cause me much more expense later and might foul up the new parts i am putting in. We almost did that with the evap. unit until we found it contaminated with water.
nc73, Couple questions. what no frills do you recommend, and was that $3.5k for the compressor or for a new unit? Is that labor and material or just the cost of the compressor?
He is talking about one of these, https://iwae.com/shop/geothermal/full-systems/package-units/ Install extra. Ductwork transitions will be necessary, last I checked the unit itself is likely smaller then your waterfurnace unit. The pump for the desuperheater should be ok, They have to be corrosion resistant due to domestic hot water use.
Sorry to hear about your trouble. If the compressor, essentially the entire refrigerant circuit has failed, in an 8 year old unit, I would replace the entire packaged unit. And start a new 10 year warranty. I would ask WF very sincerely to discount you a new unit and save the warranty parts. And do my part to make you a deal to take care of you as a customer....
I have discussed this with them. They insist I go through one of their factory trained dealers which is OK with me. Basically they offer a 10-15 percent discount. I need to go back and discuss the price with all the parts returned. This is good advice. Thanks much. Now to find a cracker jack installer.
Doc, as an alternative if I cannot reach a deal with waterfurnace and one of their contractors, is there any value to fixing this unit, and purchasing another less costly brand if this unit dies in a few years? Waterfurnace under warranty provided all of the mechanical parts for the unit, compressor, coax, superheater and pump, evap unit, filter dryer, compressor, txv valve, plus a small repair labor and freon stipend. Everything but the reversing valve. Contractor has agreed to install for $$2000, $1000 already spent. New unit will cost at least $10K with discount or more. Maybe they will take back the parts for a further discount. Bottom line, what is the risk of repairing this current unit. Electronics and blower are all that is left to fix.
Reach out to WF area rep and get him involved. You can check with the dealer locator tool on WF who the territory manager is.
Thanks much, good advice. However, been there done that. Shelton Cartwright is the area rep in this area. He has been very helpful. Riley Church is the customer service rep at the HQ. He also has been very helpful as has Andrea and others in the warranty department. Unfortunately, there is a crack in the system. Contractors who do not receive factory training CAN provide warranty work on the systems. However, there are no books or videos to train these contactors. Either they receive the factory training or the they must figure it out more or less on their own. They do have a warranty hot line that they can call while they are working on the systems, but the lack of service manuals or videos is a real hindrance. My guy has had to dismantle the unit twice just to figure out what parts to order. Cost, about $100o so far with no fix. waterfurnace relies solely on contractors. They provide them the training at contractor expense in training sessions provided by them. This is great, BUT, they are no training manuals or videos provided to non factory trained contractors even though they allow these contractors to perform work on their systems. My solution is to get a consultant to help my HVAC guy with the water part of the system since he has no experience there. Thanks again for the encouragement.
Hi Chris and others. Can anyone speak to the quality and customer service of the units. https://iwae.com/shop/geothermal/full-systems/package-units/?cooling_capacity=102 They are substantially less costly than the Waterfurnace. What about longevity?
