South Carolina External leak Geo-Flo UP-26 116F circulating pump

I had considered an inline filter arrangement. If one chose to go that route I'd use two filter assemblies in parallel with block/bleed valves allowing one to switch out filters without shutting the system down. Also providing small vent/fill connections allowing one to purge the air from the replaced filter to keep air out or the system. Would also need gauges to monitor the pressure drop across the each filter. Main problem I see is the decreasing efficiency of the system as the filters begin to plug - have to weigh that against the pump life without filters. Anyone have experience with this approach? $1600 for new pumps on a new geo-system kills cost savings for this year!

 

Jim, you do know you can buy the replacement pumps instead of the complete flow center. I cut off the outside housing and stripped off the foam insulation and replaced the complete pump and pump housing. You cannot buy just the pump housing or (volute is the proper term.) They cost about $350 each. Then I use a garden hose to fill the system back up and purge the pumps of air. Not really that hard, just take pics of the electrical connections or just swap out the housing only and use your existing pump motor. But I know that I still have particulates in the system because I have hooked up a valve and hose to the loop inlet side and another to the outlet side and flushed the water for 20 or 30 minutes and still see lots of crud. With having a valve on the outlet side I can deadhead the loop by closing the outlet valve for a few seconds at a time and it does push out more crud. We have 100 pounds of water pressure so I have to watch my loop pressure when deadheading. Of course the problem with this is I do not have nearly enough water volume to really purge the loop like a pump cart. But as I stated in my first post, they flushed the loop about 6 years ago with a pump cart and I still have crud in the loop. So I guess I am going to build my own pump cart and flush it myself.

 

Comity,

Hi and welcome to the party!. lol. The cheapest purge set up for diy is to rent a large ditch pump from a local source and use a garbage can or similar for the tank. A pair of your girl friends panty hose over the discharge to the tank would be a good start for filtration. Cheap, easy, very effective.
Eric

 

Eric,
Thanks for the info! I had thought about that but my flow control is upstairs and it would be hard to set up a gas powered pump upstairs. I remembered this afternoon that the dealer who had flushed my loop six years had sold out to another local HVAC dealer so I called to see if they still had the pump cart. I was happy to hear they still had it and the manager was very nice and offered to let me use the cart at no charge! So I am ordering a new grundfos pump, new PT ports and a 100 and a 1 micron filter to spend a day purging and filtering my loop. I hope that I can finally get my loop completely cleaned out and properly purged finally after 22 years! I have watched the video on loop flushing from the geouniverisity 5 or 6 times and if any of you guys have any other tips I would appreciate it.
Thanks
Charles Smith
West Monroe, La

 

Oops!

 

Well, I got the pump cart, new 26 99 pump, 100 micron and 1 micron filter and brought it all home. Before I picked up the pump cart I talked to the manager again and he told me he had built the cart himself years ago when he worked for the dealer who sold out to the current dealer. Also stated they don’t use filter bags. They really don’t do new installs anymore, but still will work on the units that are installed in our area. So I get the pump cart hooked up and realized the supply and return hoses are 1 inch, not great, but will still work. Then I look at the pump info and come to find out it is only a 3/4 horse pump! So I have spent most of the weekend dead heading like crazy trying to get all the crud out, with some success, but really not sure if I am getting it all out. So do you guys think that if I circulate with the 100 micron filter for a couple more days and then switch to the 1 micron for a day or so I will get all the crud out? My loop has 5 holes 200’ deep and about another 50’ of pipe up to the flow center upstairs. Unit is a 4 ton 2 stage Waterfurnace and 2 ton singe stage unit upstairs. Live in Louisiana.

 

It will certainly be better than what you had and your circ pumps should not create the flow or velocity of your purge cart.
Eric

 

Thanks for responding Eric, I was hoping you would see my question because I have thought more about your suggestion to use a ditch pump. I want to put this thing to bed and be assured that my loop is truly clean, so my question is can a 2 inch ditch pump push straight up 15 to 20 feet, then level another 20 feet into the flow center and still have enough head to clean the loop? My flow center has 1 inch connections. Or I go the dangerous route and put the pump upstairs and vent the exhaust fumes through the scuttle hole into the attic with a fan. Thanks ahead for your vast knowledge of loops that NO ONE has in our area!!

 

Every pump has a curve. Find out what the rental store uses and then look up the curve online to examine flow rates and feet of head. Running hoses and keeping the pump out of doors is the safest course of action.
Eric

 

The pump you need to purge can be calculated (in Ft/Hd and GPM), IF we know the size pipes, length of all pipes, type of pipe and what configuration (series or parallel) your vertical loops and HPs are piped.

 

Sorry I was slow responding. I had a very busy week. But I decided to go your route Eric and rented a 2 inch trash pump Friday afternoon. Went to HD and picked up a bunch of 2” plumbing fittings and pipe since I had to run from my hot tub on the deck upstairs through a bedroom window to my hvac room. Boy, what a day I had! If it could go wrong it did with leaks and other issues. I could not get the collapsible discharge hose to drain right because it was too long and kept pinching off because of low pressure, so I gave up and just let the discharge water flow out of the 2” pipe out the window and kept two garden hoses feeding the hot tub the whole time. I circulated for about three hours and kept deadheading the pump. I got a small hand full of crud out, but had forgotten to add the filter to the discharge line for about the the first 30 minutes with all the problems I was having. I assume most of the crud would come during the early part of the flush, so I missed out on the total crud removed. After that I hooked back to the 3/4 hp pump cart and circulated with the 1 micron filter for three hours and another 5 hours today. So I am glad the day from hell doing a mega enema to my loop is over!!

Something came to mind AFTER all this is the idea of putting another 1 hp 1” sprinkler pump in a series with the 3/4 hp pump cart I borrowed. They cost about $125 and according to an engineers site it increases the head by the specs for that pump. That is theory, but actual is about a 2/3 more head. Don’t know if that would have worked, but it is food for thought. Well, thanks guys for the help and maybe I won’t be replacing any loop pumps for quite a few years, although my 4 ton Waterfurnace is now 23 years old and it can’t last forever.
Thanks again
Charles Smith
West Monroe, La.

 

I started this thread on May 12, 2017 —- GUESS WHAT, PUMPS FAILED AGAIN due to external leakage. Had to replace complete flow center AGAIN after only 4 years. Originally we thought we had sand in the circulating system but on closer inspection believe the foreign material is rust etc. from erosion/corrosion of the cast iron pump housings. Will check system pH today, don’t know what else to look for? Has anyone had cavitation damage in these pumps — see pics?

 

I have seen plenty pump housings that look like that. There are only two causes for that damage.
1. sediment/sand/ debris
2. cavitation

I have never seen a pump housing look like that after four years. something is up
Eric

 

Jim O. here, those are my pump pics above — measured circulating water with hardware store pH test kit, measured 6.8 so it is on the acidic side — any comments on potential problems with cast iron pump housing and “acidic” water? Thanks.

 

Seven being nuetral, 6,8 is not acidic. .2 could be a test variation. We have run pumps in the 5's with alchahol based antifreeze with no worries.
Eric