New York Climatemaster Tranquility 22 - Can I add zones?

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by BlueWRXPride, May 31, 2016.

  1. BlueWRXPride

    BlueWRXPride New Member

    I have a 1.5 year old geothermal system with a Tranquility 22 heat pump. I have a 2 story house and it is all run on a single zone. In the summer the 2nd floor doesn't get as cool as I want with a given setpoint on the thermostat, and I am looking into being able to set 2 zones. I found http://www.arzelzoning.com/ which seems to have some interesting products to allow for zoning, but I am unclear on how well it would interact with my system. The system I have has an intelligent thermostat which has lots of detailed information on the system, and I wouldn't want to lose that.

    I like the idea of the simplicity of having a pneumatic method of closing off the vents I don't need to heat or cool. But I figure whatever zoning system I use, it has to be smart enough to decrease the fan speed if only half of the vents are open, so that the pressure isn't higher than designed.

    I tried to find some climatemaster branded solution, but I didn't see anything. Can someone give me direction on this?
     
  2. Mark Custis

    Mark Custis Not soon. Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Yes you can zone.

    Look at Arzel zoning
     
  3. BlueWRXPride

    BlueWRXPride New Member

    Check my post above. I already found Arzel zoning. I actually called them today and talked to a rep. He said that I couldn't use a system like their GTPro because then I would loose the 2 way communication to my thermostat. But there should be some Climatemaster zone controller that I could then connect to a basic Arzel control panel to control the actuators. I just can't figure out the specifics.
     
  4. BlueWRXPride

    BlueWRXPride New Member

    I called up Climatemaster technical support, and they told me they don't have anything that supports zone control, but that installers have managed to make zone control work, I'm assuming with 3rd party products. I've tried calling my installer, but they haven't been too responsive.
     
  5. Stickman

    Stickman Member Forum Leader

    My understanding is if you use a zone controller like Arzel, there is no need for any other. Your thermostats will communicate with the controller and the controller will direct the heat pump and zone dampers on how to operate. At that point, the thermostats can be "dumb".

    DISCLAIMER - just an interested homeowner here who is considering doing the same thing with my ClimateMaster split system.
     
  6. BlueWRXPride

    BlueWRXPride New Member

    Yeah but I think it has to be smarter than that. If only half of the registers are open, then you want to have the heat pump fan running at half speed so there isn't increased pressure in the system. How would you have the thermostat communicate with the Arzel controller? I think it possibly could work if I removed the intelligent thermostat currently in use and replaced it with a dumb thermostat. But then I lose a bunch of functionality.
     
  7. Stickman

    Stickman Member Forum Leader

    I've got an ECM motor in my air handler and was told by Mark here that "Arzel is very user friendly. Two dampers and a two zone board is all you will need."
     
  8. ChrisJ

    ChrisJ Active Member Forum Leader

    I think the most you can hope for is making the heat pump stay in stage 1 if only 1 zone is calling, only go to stage 2 if both zones are calling.

    There are minimum air flow numbers the coil needs going through it.

    Also just an interested home owner (Just because it says Forum Leader does't mean I know much :)

    ChrisJ
     
  9. BlueWRXPride

    BlueWRXPride New Member

    I guess that makes sense, as with stage 1 the fan is at a lower speed than with stage 2. So by limiting to stage 1 if only the upstairs zone was calling, it would keep the pressures within design.
     
  10. Mark Custis

    Mark Custis Not soon. Industry Professional Forum Leader

    You can do that with the outputs from the arzel board.
     
  11. Stickman

    Stickman Member Forum Leader

    I'm wondering if the Arzel zone board is capable of controlling the fan speed. Let's say zone 1 only is calling, so fan should run at "low" speed. Right now, our systems are designed that low speed/stage 1 serves the entire house (i.e. both zones). So if both zones are calling, wouldn't we want the fan to still run in low speed? Or can the zone board specify Stage 1/really low and Stage 1/low fan speeds?
     
  12. BlueWRXPride

    BlueWRXPride New Member

    Which Arzel board are you talking about? One of their GTPro systems? Or a more basic system? Ideally I'd like to keep my the functionality my existing thermostat gives me, such as all the internal system statistics, any error codes, etc.
     
  13. Mark Custis

    Mark Custis Not soon. Industry Professional Forum Leader

    You will want a zone controller that gives you a true y-1 y-2 output. Split the call for fan too.
    CM says this is possible, using a split in the wiring at the control board. I have not tried to do so yet.
     
  14. BlueWRXPride

    BlueWRXPride New Member

    Can we get into any specifics? What Arzel product would you recommend? How would it connect to my existing system?
     
  15. arkie6

    arkie6 Active Member Forum Leader

    The Climatemaster ATC32U02 Communicating Programmable Thermostat has the capability to utilize a remote temperature sensor. If you were to install a remote temperature sensor in a common area on the 2nd floor (I assume your thermostat is on the 1st floor), and then have a switch near the thermostat to enable the 2nd floor temperature sensor (winter = switch contact open, summer = switch contact closed). Along with this you might need a damper(s) in the 1st floor duct trunk to partially close off that duct in summer to force more air flow to the second floor - not fully close the 1st floor damper(s), but only partially close them, i.e. spring-to-open damper with 24 VAC motor to close the damper with the close stop set at 50% or 75% or whatever is necessary. If you installed a 2 pole switch by the thermostat, one pole of the switch could control the remote 2nd floor temperature sensor, and the other pole of the switch could provide power to partially close the 1st floor duct damper(s). Winter position = remote 2nd floor sensor disconnected and 1st floor damper(s) de-energized which opens them fully with Summer position = remote 2nd floor sensor enabled and 1st floor damper(s) energized and set to only go partially closed. You may have to tweek the 1st floor damper(s) closed position to get the right balance of airflow between the 1st and 2nd floor and also ensure that sufficient airflow through the unit. This assumes that your duct sizing isn't marginal to begin with. If so, you might need to install an extra branch duct to the second floor common area with a damper with reverse logic compared to the 1st floor damper (i.e. open in Summer mode, closed in Winter mode).

    This is just a lower cost idea to make this work without installing a full blown zone control system.

    Note that if you install a zone control board to control duct dampers and the geothermal unit, you will likely loose the capability to use the Climatemaster communicating thermostat and all of its features. We had a discussion on this here just recently.

    If you do install a zone control system, you can replace your Climatemaster communicating thermostat with a Climtemaster ACDU02 Communicating Service Tool installed local to the geothermal unit to monitor system parameters and change control settings, but it is several hundred dollars for that unit.
     
  16. Mark Custis

    Mark Custis Not soon. Industry Professional Forum Leader

    One could add more wire and move the tool to the home office. Cm says that you can use the communicating stat and a 24 volt zone controller. I have a verbal on a how to, but have not had my hands or electric meter on a job.

    I can give you a phone number and pick out a board, but I do not know anything. It might piss off Doc and then I get to do all that wine blabber again.

    Mark
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2016
  17. BlueWRXPride

    BlueWRXPride New Member

    Thanks for the lengthy response! I didn't realize my thermostat could utilize a remote temperature sensor. But I took a look at both the installer and user manual for the thermostat, and I couldn't find anything about how it actually functions. Where can I find that detail?
     
  18. BlueWRXPride

    BlueWRXPride New Member

    Who is Doc?
     
  19. Stickman

    Stickman Member Forum Leader

    Docjenser, one of the Forum Leaders here.
     
  20. Mark Custis

    Mark Custis Not soon. Industry Professional Forum Leader

    He does not lead me.
     

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