North Carolina Climatemaster repair concerns - appreciate feedback from pro's here

Discussion in 'Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by fpc, Mar 3, 2016.

  1. fpc

    fpc New Member

    Two ClimateMaster 2 stage systems – 3 ton packaged with VFlow and a 2 ton split with external fixed pump flow center both in parallel to loop field (two 300’ wells, closed loop, 4 ton house per Man j)

    Systems ran fine for 3 years. Nominal ground temp here 62F, EWT varies between 45F and 78F winter/summer. All good.

    Two weeks ago 3 ton unit shut down. Small water leak in the ball valve between the PE pipe and the hoses entering the unit.

    Climatemaster Elite dealer that installed system out of business. Called another CM dealer in the area.

    Agreed to next available service call 5 days later. Sent pics of the dripping 1 “ water ball valve since they didn’t do the install.

    Installers showed up, on time, and replaced the ball valve and hooked up a flush cart. After flushing they noted the adjacent check valve was now leaking.

    No check valve on the truck, came back two days later, replaced check valve, flushed system again.

    Technician changed the VFlow from 10F delta T to fixed flow based on previous experience with other systems. Also installed water valves with thread sealant.

    Since then I’ve read the CM IOM. They recommend the 10F delta T for Vflow and Teflon tape on the valves to prevent heat exchanger contamination.

    The invoice was almost $700. Essentially $250 for the brass valves, $175 times two for the flushes and $90 diagnostic fee.

    To be honest, I almost fainted. I have a call in to the owner to discuss the bill and the differences from the CM IOM.

    I’d be grateful for any feedback regarding the bill and the changes the tech made. I really feel like a fool. I was sorta expecting $300 to $400 which would seem to cover replacing a couple of $10 valves and a flush.

    Thank you.
  2. Mark Custis

    Mark Custis Not soon. Industry Professional Forum Leader

    One needs to know what costs are involved in doing business and making a profit.

    I have learned and worked for many years to share here for free what I know.

    Free is Free, but not when it is my best knowledge.

  3. docjenser

    docjenser Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    It is very difficult and time consuming to deal with issues in systems installed by others.

    What do you think they spend in total time trying to fix the problem for you? $75/hour including drive time, and $50 in materials? Plus tax. Adds up quickly.

    The ball valve was not their fault. The check valve was not their fault either. The had to come out twice and flush twice, which was not their fault either. And a setting for 10F delta T on the Vflow is not giving you the specified water flow climate master wants, so I don't know why they (CM) specify 10F.

    Sounds to me that your tech was skilled.
  4. mrrxtech

    mrrxtech Member

    If you don't like sticker shock, and who does, the only option you have is to buy the best parts and do the work yourself.

    That would include auto repair, all home fixtures & systems, engine driven devices used to maintain your property, and a list of other examples I'm leaving out.

    As far as I know there are no laws to date prohibiting an auto owner or home owner from fixing his/her own equipment.

    The Pro's will never miss you (d0ing your own work) since there's world of people to help which accounts for the wait you experienced.
  5. geoxne

    geoxne Active Member Forum Leader

  6. Mark Custis

    Mark Custis Not soon. Industry Professional Forum Leader

    This is all a moving target.
  7. fpc

    fpc New Member

    Thanks all for the feedback, it does seem that the target delta T in the CM IOM has changed a bit over time. Not sure that leaving a VFlow in a fixed flow situation is proper but as long as it works I'm fine. I'll see how it effects EWT over time. Also updated my spares kit to include a supply of 1" valves and a RAM-1 , I'll probably never need them now :)
    Local installers here are struggling with new builds as the NC 35% tax credit expired last year. Hopefully the Federal 30% credit gets a reprieve. I really think GSHPs are viable technology, but putting the customer in the middle between "manufacturer certified" service organizations with different opinions and a manufacturer with yet a third opinion is probably not the best model to inspire confidence among customers.
    This forum certainly has been a great help for me.
    Thanks again -


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