I have two quotes that are more or less identical in price. One is offering a Bosch TA049 and the other a Climatemaster TT049. Any thoughts about which might be the better choice? Also, the loop installer is suggesting horizontal bore vs trenching. Other than not tearing up the back acre or two of my yard, what is the advantage/disadvantage of going this route?
As to the units they are prolly close enough in specs not to worry. You do not want to buy a volvo if the nearest dealer is 2 hours away and they have to order parts??... I would check on the availability of parts and move on. The loop installation is really about how you can get the most loop in the ground the cheapest. Eric
Eric put it perfectly. Both Bosch/FHP or the GeoExcel relable as well as CM have excellent distributor support throughout MI. Comfortaire out of Jackson is built by CM and has longer compressor warranty.
I'm fairly certain that Bosch has a better warranty...10 years if I'm right. Also, there is no real reason to do horizontal bore over trenching. If you don't care about your landscaping, I would probably go the trenching route. Cheaper and you can use a slinky pipe design, which means shorter trenches. Good luck! Jonathan Broscious Earthwell Energies www.earthwellenergies.com
It is installed The loop digger did a horizontal bore and the system is now in place. I ended up with the Bosch unit and we will see how well it performs. I am fairly confident the AC will work with no problem. It is the heating side I am a little concerned with. Our old system was a 3.5 ton 92% propane system and now we have a 4 ton geo unit. The propane system was undersized a little and couldn't keep up under the coldest temperatures. Hopefully the geo unit will perform better. It does have 9.6kw strip heaters inline so I don't think it will have the same problems of being undersized. I just hope that the strip heaters don't run very often.
WestMichigan, You should be fine with the electric resistance heat. The big question on the geothermal unit is how big is the loop field? How many feet of pipe is run and at how deep? This will help determine the capacity of your geothermal system and will help figure out how often your electric heaters will run. But with the electric resistance heat on top of that, you shouldn't be worried about getting cold this winter! Jonathan Broscious Earthwell Energies www.earthwellenergies.com
"I just hope that the strip heaters don't run very often." One of my designs today has the auxiliary coil running more than 450 hours a year! (By the way that amounts to 4 % of the heating and a cost of about $77.00. We could employ a 4 ton instead of a 3 for ~$2,000 more and save $40/yr in operating cost- it'd pay for itself in only 35 years after tax credit). I don't want you to think I'm being trite with your concerns, but I do want to illustrate that a little extra auxiliary ain't always bad. PM me who you employed if you don't mind and keep up the feed back so I can share it with the next person who asks. j
...and the $40 per year saved in winter via a 4 Ton could well be eclipsed by a loss of comfort and efficiency during summer if the 4T is way oversized for the cooling load (that's fairly likely up north)
I am not sure I understand how feet of pipe in the ground at a given depth correlates with the usage of resistance heat. Feet of pipe in the ground must support the load put on it by a given unit. If the unit will not meet the load put on it by the house, your unit will run longer, temps in the field will eventually heat or cool, but the capacity is a result of the implied load. Not the amount of pipe in the ground, More pipe in the ground allows for a longer run time prior to it delivering a sub standard temp, but does not create capacity. Eric
Loop length I have 4 U shaped runs of 200 feet each. Three are in relative proximity and parallel to each other (separated by 10 - 15 feet) while the fourth goes off at a 45° angle from the other three.
"We’ve introduced significant innovation in the industry, and offer our customers a patent pending design process that delivers optimal, best in class cost efficiencies. Our process leverages Monte Carlo simulators to dramatically reduce the risks of under-sizing and over-sizing units and their ground heat exchangers. This means you can rest easy knowing your system has been optimally custom designed (and installed) for your home or business’ unique profile and future energy needs." Jonathan, I got the above quote from your website. I can only hope that your patent pending design process leveraging Monte Carlo Simulators does incorporate the basic principles of heat exchange including loopfield design, manual J calculations and unit sizing. Obviously, loopfield capacity determines the amount which can be extracted from the ground (usually over the season), while heatpump capacity determines the amount of heat which can be delivered an a given amount of time (usually short term e.g. per hour), so your above statement is incorrect. Also in your article of solar vs geothermal you wrote at your local Starbucks, your forgot in your payback calculations that geosystems typically consume electricity. http://ezinearticles.com/?Geothermal-Vs-Solar---Which-Is-Better-for-Your-Home?&id=6980686 While there is nothing wrong to transfer from an operations manager for a radio station to become the operating officer for a geothermal company, but you (so far) appear to lack substantial know how about geo system's design and operation. Given all the warm words and big promises you use on your webpage, I can only hope that you do not harm customers as we see it many times here in this forum by inexperienced installers. At the very minimum you should ensure that what you are posting here is correct, given that you are obviously trying to enter the geothermal business.
"Our process leverages Monte Carlo simulators to dramatically reduce the risks of under-sizing and over-sizing units and their ground heat exchangers" Kinda sounds like we're going to "baffle them with BS." Bergy
That is why I was kind of direct here. Coupled with the statements lacking obvious know how, the BS alert flag was risen up on the pole.
To follow up on docjenser's observation from 2012 on the BS that was quoted from Earthwell Energies web page............. It was indeed BS, in a big way. Earthwell Energies and in particular, owner Jonathan PEACH, aka Jonathan Broscious, has harmed a large list of homeowners, from installing poorly designed systems to taking tens of thousands of dollars of deposit payments and never doing the work and leaving all victims with EMPTY Promises and empty bank accounts. This so called company (with a basic 101 level of contracting business) is a prime example of the slime that oozes through the cracks of a good industry, leaving deep scars. Please keep watch for this company or any with the same ownership (as the company will more than likely take on a new name).
And, unfortunately, I have another dishonest geo company to report about. http://longisland.news12.com/news/s...ng-and-cooling-system-installations-1.8672185 They were my installer, and I plan to write about my geo adventure in the testimonials forum at a later date. Since the above linked story, they have subsequently filed Chapter 11, and the court is most likely going to force liquidation.
That's awful, but yes deserves it's own story (in quotes and proposals probably), not attached to an ancient thread.
