Aurora Web Link for WaterFurnace Series 7

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by stevelion, Jun 23, 2014.

  1. stevelion

    stevelion New Member

  2. urthbuoy

    urthbuoy Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    So now I get to monitor/control with two separate air systems and a 3rd radiant system. I was almost hoping this didn't come out.
     
  3. parrisjr

    parrisjr Member

    Finally, but as long as it took them to develope it, now we probably can't afford it!
     
  4. urthbuoy

    urthbuoy Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    I set up a fair amount of remote controls and it is not a money-maker. Nobody wants to pay me 4 hours to figure out how to login to their Apple Router to change some DNS settings.

    This looks to be simple to enable though. Fingers crossed.
     
  5. rmcalhany

    rmcalhany New Member

    My local dealer told me it'd be $750 per each of my series 7 units to add the AWL. However, from what I can find online (see link below), all it requires is a simple change via the AID tool (for each unit) and 2 routers. I'd happily pay $250, but not $1500, to have access to my system anywhere, anytime.

    http://www.edenenergy.com/blog/how-to-setup-waterfurnace-symphony

    It also appears that the Series 5 can run this - but needs an additional board:
    http://www.edenenergy.com/blog/waterfurnace-launches-new-advanced-controls-axb-board

    Best,
    Robert
     
  6. SeekingAdvice

    SeekingAdvice Member

    Depending on the date of manufacture, I believe some Series 5 may already have the AXB board (or perhaps after a certain date it was an available add on, I don't remember. As I got my unit installed last year, with the Aurora installed in the spring, I haven't kept up on the ins and outs of everything.

    Regarding price. My installed shared with me what his cost was, and $250 for a pair is well below his cost.
    Your installed is charging a bit for their time and service (should only take 30-60 minutes, or less per unit to install, 10 minutes if the installer has done a bunch).
    But the problem is, the software, website and router are all WaterFurnace intellectual property. You aren't just buying a random router and plugging it in, you have to by their router, which they spend the time and money developing.
    I think $1500 for 2 seems a bit high, but your installer can set whatever price they want, and if you are un-happy, call a different installer. There appears to be a glut of WaterFurnace registered installers in most areas these days, and because you are just having the Aurora installed, not an actual geo unit, you wouldn't have to worry that you whether the installer is stable and reliable (sorry stable and reliable installers, but if your goal is to turn a healthy profit on a plug and play box, from someone you already made a healthy profit (my assumption), expect people to shop around.
    That being said, the pricing information I had is several months old, so WF might have increased their cost to the dealers for all I know.

    <Edit> no change to context, just fixing some terrible spelling.<Edit>
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2015
  7. docjenser

    docjenser Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    The symphony specific hardware router is $589 on the Waterfurnace price list. Add the labor and the driving .....
     
  8. SeekingAdvice

    SeekingAdvice Member

    My apologies Doc, if $589 is the wholesale cost (your cost) then I take back my rant. Either my installer under-quoted or WF doubled their price since launch. In which if $589 is the cost from WaterFurnace, that is a bit much (considering a co-worker of mine has contacted them on at least 10 errors in their code which were reporting incorrect results to the website).
     
  9. Graham C

    Graham C New Member

    My installer quoted me the $589 price/unit as well with $120 labor for each unit (I have 2 units)...so that sounds in-line with what you were being quoted. I had this installed right after it came out in May. After spending such a lot on these units in the first place an extra $1,400 to bring them into this century didn't seem like such a bad deal.
     
  10. docjenser

    docjenser Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    $589 is the cost of the suggested Retail price list from WF. Dealers get variable amounts of discount of this list, which is meant to cover their expenses and profit. Not sure why you went on a rant just because your dealer is giving you a list price, and is trying to cover his expenses and making a reasonable profit on it. After all, I am not aware of any successful business in the U.S. that does not cover their expenses and sustains making a profit.
     
  11. Try Climatemaster Trilogy it is FREE!!!!!!!!!
    Enough said
    Never apologize for a warranted RANT if WFI deserves it.
    Profit is the name of the game
     
  12. docjenser

    docjenser Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Kind of a bad business model, giving away their technology for free. Are you sure that someone does not pay for it somehow?
     
  13. On the other hand one doesn't need to constantly rip people off when you are an industry leader.
    You can afford to offer that, as you are already so far ahead of your competitors.
    WFI is doing nothing more than scratching their heads right now wondering what the heck just happened.
    They announced the very first variable capacity Geothermal system to the industry and brain washed all their dealers that it as usual is the only premium product in the industry to just fall so short.
    To find out that Climatemaster was already working on a machine 10-12 years earlier with Oakridge Laboratories. And that not only beats them in the EER but also nails them with the design of on a machine that offers on demand hot water, communicating hot water tank, complete mobile interface, refrigeration heat sink for inverter board, variable capacity system.
    And they still have their dealers brain washed into that they are the only premium product offered and how dare someone step to the plate to take over the helm.
    Sounds like someone else here on the forum
     
  14. docjenser

    docjenser Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Not sure if you are ripping off people when you develop a valuable product and charge for it. While you seem to be on a rant against WF, they obviously have the 7 series out there since 2012, while CM's Trilogy had their launch problems.
    The weird thing is just that you proudly claim to be a Geostar dealer, which I am sure you are aware is an identical WF product (clone), offering identical product lines including variable speed HPs, made on the same assembly line as all the identical WF products.
    Why do you sell and endorse their products when you are convinced that they are so far behind their competitors? Did you know that WF makes all the Geostar products?

    The arguments you make here continue to lack evidence.
     
  15. ChrisJ

    ChrisJ Active Member Forum Leader

    From the brochure Trilogy is 4 stage, I wouldn't really call that as "variable speed" as WFs' 12 speeds.

    Their hot water generator is patent pending, probably waiting to see if infringes on Hydro-Temps patent for making on-demand hot water while making warm air at the same time.

    It only gets the 45 EER and 5.1 COP at first stage. Full cap 21 EER and 3.3 COP
     
  16. docjenser

    docjenser Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    I think the brochure just displays the rated numbers at 4 stages, but I think that the Mitsubishi compressor has more. Yes, the high efficiency numbers are only good in low stage operation, since pumping energy and fan energy go up exponentially and the heat exchangers are not oversized anymore. But overall the efficiency is similar, thus the claim that the Trilogy blows the 7 series out of the water is silly.

    The hot water circuit might have some unique elements, but just because someone has applied for a patent does not assure that it adds any value for the field. Really valuable patents are usually the ones where everyone involved shuts up about it. The ones used in advertisement before they are issued usually are for marketing, meant to imply novelty and value, which is not really there.
     
  17. Patents are always pending for many many years after the design. Usually like 40 years. We do sell the Geostar product and we do like the equipment but we only call it as we see it. WFI is an overrated product for the price. We are entitled our opinions but how can this docjenser continue to act like everything I say needs to be discredited. They are facts and I am so sorry it huts your WFI ears. But you cant discredit Oakridge Laboratories that worked on this with them to perfect it.
    The compressor is proprietary to Climatemaster and thats all I am going to say. The system has many more stages than the brochure shows.
    But I guess until Mr. know it all has installed both systems I find it difficult for him to comment on the quality of both systems on a professional level. And that settles that.
    Period!!!!
     
  18. docjenser

    docjenser Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Not saying that CM is a bad or inferior product, I just don't see any evidence that it is superior to the WF product.
    Not sure why you keep making comments here which could not be further away from the truth, which completely undermines your credibility. If you don't know a subject, just don't comment on it!
    Patent life in the U.S. is 20 years from filing max, no matter how long it is pending approval. So if it takes 5 years to get approved, the pending time, it only has a 16 year life span as an approved patent. Sometimes a patent can extended by 6 month if significant investment is done by the patent holder, like a pharmaceutical company getting a new indication approved though expensive clinical trials.

    http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/mpep/s2701.html
     
  19. Mark Custis

    Mark Custis Not soon. Industry Professional Forum Leader

    One does not need variable speed anything when one designs with water to water.
     
  20. docjenser

    docjenser Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    My dream machine is a 5 ton variable speed (capacity) w-w high temp, one size fits it all. Efficient part load operation, no need for buffer tank or flow separation with zoning. System design would be so simple....
     

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