Oklahoma Am I being taken to the cleaners?

Discussion in 'Quotes and Proposals' started by Josh W, Aug 30, 2018.

  1. Josh W

    Josh W New Member

    i have been in talks with local geo contractors in the Tulsa area and have been given only ballpark figures for installing a system. Currently I am being told to install a 40+ eer system at my residence that it could cost anywhere from 50-60k. From the research I have done on this site this seems extremely excessive.

    My current home is 3,000 sq feet and has a 4 ton and a 2 ton unit installed. On top of that in the last month I had spray foam installed in my attic rafters as my units are installed there with all the ductwork. I was thinking of having one Waterfurnace series 7 installed with IntelliZone2 so that I could potentially get away with installing one unit instead of two.

    If anyone has any recommendations or knows anyone who could give me a resonable quote I would greatly appreciate it.
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2018
  2. Josh W

    Josh W New Member

    I am also curious too is it even possible to install the Waterfurnace 7 series in the attic or is it required that I have a split geothermal system installed.
  3. Neokane

    Neokane Member

    I had a WF Series 7 - NVV060 - retro installed with 5 wells 205 ft long directionally bored for 25k in 2015.
    No fancy air filters, no dsh, no zoning,
    Unit and install was $ 21,695.00
    Boring was $ 3,850.00

    5 ton Waterfurnace
    “Series 7”Geothermal Heat Pump
    ~ Variable Speed Compressor, with ECM Blower Motor
    ~Variable Speed Double Pump Flo Center with PT Ports
    TPCC32U01–Communicating and Performance Monitoring Stat
    Aurora Weblink Router for Symphony Platform
    Ground Exchanger Boring
    Installation of 5 – ¾” x 205’ Horizontal U Bend Coils
    Header Shots into the house
    All Ground Exchanger Fusion
    Scope of Work /Accessories / and Installation
    Uninstall Existing Furnace and A/C and Disposal of both
    Set New Geothermal Heat Pump where furnace sits
    Adapt Existing sheet metal to existing plenum
    New Insulated Return Air Drop
    Plumb Unit to Flow Center and Ground Exchanger Loops
    Includes all ground exchanger loops, headers and misc.
    Install New Thermostat on main level
    10kw Electric Strip Heat EAL10
    High Density Air Pad – AP32
    1 Year Planned Maintenance Agreement
    10 Year Waterfurnace Parts Warranty with 5 yr Labor Allowance
  4. Josh W

    Josh W New Member

    Neokane thanks for the information I wish that was what I was quoted I would jump on it in a heartbeat. I currently only have one formal quote in hand and it’s at 47k for a 4ton and a 2ton waterfurnace. I’m being told that drilling the well in my part of the woods costs 13k!!! I guess there is only one person who does it so they have a monopoly. I don’t have the quote in front of me at this second and they didn’t really break it down for me just gives me the basic information and that the final price is 47k.

    I have two more quotes on the way one that the contractor is an hour away (quoting me on a seven series). The other is going to get me a quote on a ClimateMaster tranquility 30.

    I also read the literature on the 7 series and saw that it can be installed in the attic but may void the warranty. My attic is conditioned space as I just recently had spray foam installed in the rafters. I take it that the attic is conditioned space it will not void the warranty, hope I am understanding this correctly.

    As always thanks for all the help and input.
  5. Neokane

    Neokane Member

    I'm not a professional, but the installation manual does specify some restrictions on ambient temps.
    If you could prove that your attic stays between these temps, you may have a solid argument if warranty situations arise.

    "Locate the unit in an indoor area, minimum ambient of
    45°F and maximum ambient of 100°F, that allows for easy
    removal of the filter and access panels. Attic installations
    are not approved and could result in loss of warranty."
  6. Josh W

    Josh W New Member

    that was the same thing I saw and as my attic has been within 4 degrees of my house it should never get close to those temperature. If I do get geothermal I will make sure I won’t lose my warranty.
  7. Josh W

    Josh W New Member

    Ok so i have 2 quotes in hand that i am considering and would really love some feedback on ClimateMaster trilogy 45. Between the two quotes below i am leaning more towards the 1st quote since it includes the HWT as well. I hope someone on here can chime in with experience with ClimateMaster, I have defiantly seen that more people on here get WaterFurnace installed and that there are mixed feelings about ClimateMaster. I'm also interested in hearing if ClimateMaster has gotten better since being bought by the company who owns WaterFurnace (would love to hear what doc thinks about this).

    1st quote $46,962.00
    ClimateMaster Trilogy 45 (QEV1860) believe that is 5 ton.
    -85 Gallon Hot Water Tank (includes plumbing)
    -900' total vertical bore loop field
    -new r-8 flex duct throughout
    -10KW heat strip
    -price includes everything to complete install (electrical work, plumbing and supplies)
    -I can also add zoning $3k for 3 zones

    2nd quote $48,950
    WaterFurnace 7 series 4 ton
    -3 zones
    -4 vertical wells, 250' each.
    -new metal duct-work throughout (w/ 3" foil-backed insulation)
    -they had to add drive time since they are 1.5 hours away
    -price includes everything to install (electrical work, and supplies)​

    They didn't break the quote down for me just added that description and told me they could give me the full description on Monday, they also didn't put in the email weather it includes backup heat but I imagine it would.

    Thanks for all the help guys and look forward to the responses.
  8. docjenser

    docjenser Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    We are not doing Climatemaster anymore, only Waterfurnace. The 7 series has been Bulletproof in the last 5 years since it is out there.

    Not much (if any) Technology Transfer is going on between the 2 companies despite NIBE owning both of them. I don't think that NIBE was looking for synergy at this stage, they were just making a strategic decision to own a dominating portion of the U.S. heat pump market.

    I would also never do R-8 flex duct when metal duct is possible. Looks a bit like corner cutting to me. The effort of putting new metal duct with insulation through your house is significantly more.

    You should get at least a desuperheater with 2 tanks for domestic hot water, or even much better a dedicated hot water heat pump.

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