Ontario 5 ton Geo running 24/7

Discussion in 'Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by Maurice Sabourin, Oct 21, 2015.

  1. Maurice Sabourin

    Maurice Sabourin Newbie but learning quicly...

    Hi everyone
    last winter i came to this forum with this problem. Winter is coming and the problem as not been resolved.
    Our 5 ton Nordic unit run 24/7, on stage one
    Our tech as changed the thermostat, twice... No change. He was thinking the algorithms of the thermostats...
    The temperatures right now are not so cool it should be running constantly.
    I will be installing a set of led lights to so I can monitor when is running and at what stage. I will also install a remote thermometer inside the heating ducks to monitor the air temperature.
    It did not do this the first 2 winters, I dont see why it should now, especially if its not so cold out yet.
    Is there anything else I should be looking at.


    Specifications.
    Nordic R65 2 stage heat pump with pond loop.
    the Current thermostat is a White Rogers, Model 1F95-1291

    Note: this 5 ton unit shares the pond loop with another 2 ton unit they each have their flow centers.

    Thank you fir any insight you may give me...
    Maurice
     
  2. docjenser

    docjenser Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Thermostats turn units on and off, unless there is something funny at your computer board.

    Is the thermostat getting satisfied? Does the unit actually put out heat to satisfy the thermostat?
     
  3. Maurice Sabourin

    Maurice Sabourin Newbie but learning quicly...

    Yes it does get satisfied.
    if i turn up the demand by one degree, the temperature increases by one degree and the unit keeps running at the demand temperature.
    We have tried 4 different thermostats.
     
  4. urthbuoy

    urthbuoy Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    If the heat of extraction is poor (low refrigerant), I've had units still run continuously without effective output. No lockout under low pressure. Poor heat output.
     
  5. Maurice Sabourin

    Maurice Sabourin Newbie but learning quicly...

    Thank you Chris.
    How would I go about checking this... Before I bring a tech in...
     
  6. urthbuoy

    urthbuoy Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Simplest way is to measure your air temperature going in to the unit and air temperature going out of the unit. If there is just a few degrees difference, then it points towards low refrigerant being a possible reason.

    edit: There are other possibilities like ducting in uninsulated spaces.
     
  7. waterpirate

    waterpirate Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    If it runs 24/7 in stage 1, where is stage 2? I had a similar issue some years ago with a unit that would not go into stage 2 in cooling.
    Eric
     
  8. Maurice Sabourin

    Maurice Sabourin Newbie but learning quicly...


    Thank you Chris.
    I will monitor them and see what is happening.
    Why would ducting in uninsulated areas have a an effect?

    Maurice
     
  9. Maurice Sabourin

    Maurice Sabourin Newbie but learning quicly...

    Stage 2 does kick in when we increase the demand. I have no issues when cooling, but we barely use it.
    Maurice
     
  10. waterpirate

    waterpirate Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    If you increase demand to force stage 2, does it cycle off or cycle back to stage 1 24/7?
    Eric
     
  11. Maurice Sabourin

    Maurice Sabourin Newbie but learning quicly...

    UPDATE:

    After a third thermostat change the unit is still running 24/7


    If I increase the demand to force a stage 2, it cycles back to stage 1 once it reaches call temp, and stays on...
    I have been monitoring the Return Air and Supply Air, very close to the unit, I have two probes inside.

    When we first installed the unit the techs have reported RA of 66F and SA of 98F
    The tune up reported a RA of 66F and SA of 98F
    The third tune up reported RA of 68F and SA of 92F
    When the tech came to see what was the problem, and changed the thermostat he reported a RA of 66F and SA of 89F

    Last week i monitored the following
    The call temp is 67 degrees F, the current RA is 66.2 degrees F and the current SA 82.2 degrees F.
    The outside temperature is 30 degrees F.

    The SA values I am reading now are between 82.2 and 87 degrees F. That is much lower from when it was first installed

    I have sent this info to the company the installed the unit, last week.
    I have yet to hear from them...

    I would appreciate anything I could bring to them as an argument.
    Thank you everyone for any help...
     
  12. urthbuoy

    urthbuoy Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    The low voltage wiring could be setup incorrectly. You could be shorting across to a Y1 call for example.

    I would have to assume a tech would have covered all this, but it may be worth posting a picture of your thermostat wiring and a picture of your unit wiring.
     
  13. Maurice Sabourin

    Maurice Sabourin Newbie but learning quicly...



    Thank you Chris.

    In your opinion, it would not be the low refrigerant level?

    I will try to post pictures of the wiring.
    if I turn the unit down 1 degree below call, the unit stops....
    When the temperature of the house drops, the unit starts normally, and keep running...
     
  14. urthbuoy

    urthbuoy Well-Known Member Industry Professional Forum Leader

    Won't be the wiring then, if it shuts off when you lower temp.

    It could still be a very low heat of extraction doing this (low refrigerant). I can't think of anything else that would do this, unless it is something like just the fan is on (no compressor).
     
  15. Maurice Sabourin

    Maurice Sabourin Newbie but learning quicly...


    Compressor is on for sure, the fan is on auto, and shuts off when I lower the temperature.
    Plus my electrical bill proves its not just a fan... :(
     
  16. Tamar

    Tamar Member Forum Leader

    Is the thermostat in an odd location (outside wall?). Is the thermostat a geothermal-specific stat? I'm not sure why with SA even in the 80s the room air isn't satisfying the stat, or getting it to ratched up to 2nd stage if it is running for so long in first stage.
     
  17. Maurice Sabourin

    Maurice Sabourin Newbie but learning quicly...

    The first 3 years the geo performed normally, I would wake at night and hear it start and stop.
    Now i dont sleep at night, listening to it run constently... :(

    We tried the thermostat from the other Geo replaced it with this one, we put in 2 other thermostat, with the same results.
    We insulated the back of the wall plate, we monitored the temperatures around the thermostat...

    The current thermostat:
    White Rogers, For single stage, multi stage, heath pump.
    Big Blue, Model. 1F95-1291
     
  18. ChrisJ

    ChrisJ Active Member Forum Leader

    I have had this exact problem and it was low refrigerant. Unit would just put out enough heat to maintain temp.

    CJ
     
  19. Maurice Sabourin

    Maurice Sabourin Newbie but learning quicly...

    I am still waiting on answers from the techs...
    I just found a small glycol leak in the loop coming into the house

    What SA temperatures should i be looking at in a normal and properly functioning system?
    The reported SA were 98F when first installed, now the SA is at 87F max
    is it normal it should be so much lower after 4 years of running?
     
  20. moey

    moey Member

    All things the same your output temps should be close to the same not a 11F difference.
     

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