My 20 year old Waterfurnace Premier AT two speed heat pump switched from normal heating, reverting to Emergency heat with the resistive elements. [[ I will use WF = Waterfurnace ]] The thermostat indicated a continuously on "Fault" light and the HP showed a flashing "Low Pressure" - the owner manual suggested trying a reset. I did that twice, once by also shutting off power at the circuit breakers. The HP returned to normal operation for a couple of minutes, long enough for me to "ear check" and I found the compressor to be running smoothly as were the two loop pumps. Then the system again failed to the same condition indicators. The OM suggests a "refrigerant leak". This would have resulted in me contacting the contractor who installed the HP, but he has long since changed from Water Furnace to another brand, and then a few years ago seems to have retired, and his business along with him. I have use a WF Geopro located in the same area as my original dealer (about 25 miles from home) with mixed results. The last of two times I hired his services for was in July 2010 when he replaced my loop pumps (this job was not done correctly - my full analysis suggested that the pumps didn't need replacing either, but at least I have new pumps). The first repair on the WF was done by the same Geopro in 2009 and I experienced some delays because of parts problems with the factory (or the dealer), the forced air 3 speed fan. The repair was done correctly and is still operating in good order. That business also has vanished. This could be related to the problems I had with that business on the second visit... I settled my complaint with the owner and did not escalate - in fact this is my first public complaint and is provided only to explain my caution in calling a new repair service - see below. So, as I am not in an emergency, just paying the high cost of resistive heating reduced by using a wood stove insert, I am shopping for a repair service. There is a WF Geopro about 20 miles from me that appears to be a dedicated geothermal dealer and several (new to me) WF dealers within 10 miles of me. But, as my unit is old I am leaning toward contacting the more distant Geopro for a repair visit. I have also sent email to that dealer and to the WF Territory Manage asking for advice on getting local help on my older unit. I have not yet heard back and will telephone the TM later today. Welcome comments.... I will also discuss replacing the compressor (would like to replace with a Scroll) and other major updates (upgrades if possible) as well as replacing the system with a newer Synergy system. Cost will be a major decision factor. Well insulated 2000 sf home and 20 years experience with a 4 ton (36 KBTU?) geothermal hp. So I have a mind set to reuse the existing ground loop (vertical) and same size hp.
I hope to not be violating any rules concerning double posting, but as the post below has not received any replies beyond one on a more social aspect, I provide a link to it here in the troubleshooting area. I think the problem, considering the age of the unit, is likely leaks in refrigerant, as the diagnostic indicators suggest. It now exist in the general discussion set, per the link below. http://www.geoexchange.org/forum/threads/20-year-old-water-furnace-stopped-hp-heating-saturday.5813/
Good news update: The dealer arrived today to repair my existing unit. He gets at least AAA rating: Response, Knowledge, and Cost. Add another "A" for having the parts and all equipment needed on his truck. The whole visit took about an hour and that was with at least 15 minutes being added by my questions and talking about fishing. Turns out he knows my neighborhood as he comes their to fly fish the South Branch, about 1/4 mile (down hill thank God) from my house. Oh yes, my little Terrier (Westie) added a few minutes with his warnings and inspection of all actions. I suggested from the readout on the WF unit refrigerant might be the problem...he said could be electrical. I watched him open the correct doors without any reference to documents and said: Yes, the starter capacitor is blown. He replaced the capacitor and an associated relay and recharged the ground loop saying it was critically low, but some leakage is to be expected. He asked when was it last charged, I said about 3 years ago...the message is GET ROUTINE MAINTENANCE even on a geo-hp. Watching it takes a couple of pieces of special equipment to add antifreeze/liquid to the ground loop, not a DiY in my book. He also agreed the loop being low on liquid may have contributed to the failure. The system is up and running and at specs. He confirmed parts are scarce to non-existent on this unit, he can not get a new compressor if one is needed. While this repair was under $500, the past two repairs were each well over $1,000 each. He said after rebates a System 5, 4 ton could be installed for around $10,000. Sounds good to me, and this price would reuse the existing ground loop and pumps (both pumps were replaced two years ago) and the existing wiring. He said major sheet metal work would be needed as the newer units have larger heat exchangers to gain in efficiency. His rough estimate included sheet metal and I assume removal of old equipment. This repair man is a owner/operator, often the best we can get and is at the core of the American Private Enterprise high quality and value... not government run/screwed-up beyond what government does already with regulations and taxes. I had some doubts about WF, and still do, but this dealer reestablished my faith in one of their dealer. He is a senior, but may be working for a few more years, he has installed Premiere AT WF HPs in the mid-late 1990s. He said my model is older than (mine is a series A, he installed C and D series units in his early years) - but I felt really optimistic (and justified it turns out) as I learned who had arrived on my cold doorstep to fix my HP. He said my choice of a Synergy 3D was not the best, saying the Synergy is designed to deliver hot water heat and if one uses forced air for heating the System 5 is the best, lower cost, system. This was the reference for the $10K rough estimate. I'll check this out and I may upgrade next fall to a new System 5. I want to get a few hours of use out of my just finished repair. He said as far as my existing unit is concerned it could last for several more years but the high cost or repair and lack of parts support will require it be replaced. Interesting too he recommends the two stage Scroll compressor, not the variable single speed (think I have it right the single speed varies how going to "Stage II" by varying the pumping load, not changing speeds, no stop-start). He is not yet convinced the newer design will hold up, time will tell. Hey, my two speed is still (cross my fingers) switching after 20 years on the job. If someone in Northern Central NJ (Flemington North) needs a WF dealer who is a true expert, let me know. I had mentioned my feeling of a loss when the dealer who installed my unit retired, this new contact knew that dealer well and had high respect for his work/person. I feel like I got an early Christmas Present on this repair, Merry Christmas to all.
Here is the duplicate follow-up (also to the above) and closes this issue for now The dealer arrived today to repair my existing unit. He gets at least AAA rating: Response, Knowledge, and Cost. Add another "A" for having the parts and all equipment needed on his truck. The whole visit took about an hour and that was with at least 15 minutes being added by my questions and talking about fishing. Turns out he knows my neighborhood as he comes their to fly fish the South Branch, about 1/4 mile (down hill thank God) from my house. Oh yes, my little Terrier (Westie) added a few minutes with his warnings and inspection of all actions. I suggested from the readout on the WF unit refrigerant might be the problem...he said could be electrical. I watched him open the correct doors without any reference to documents and said: Yes, the starter capacitor is blown. He replaced the capacitor and an associated relay and recharged the ground loop saying it was critically low, but some leakage is to be expected. He asked when was it last charged, I said about 3 years ago...the message is GET ROUTINE MAINTENANCE even on a geo-hp. Watching it takes a couple of pieces of special equipment to add antifreeze/liquid to the ground loop, not a DiY in my book. He also agreed the loop being low on liquid may have contributed to the failure. The system is up and running and at specs. He confirmed parts are scarce to non-existent on this unit, he can not get a new compressor if one is needed. While this repair was under $500, the past two repairs were each well over $1,000 each. He said after rebates a System 5, 4 ton could be installed for around $10,000. Sounds good to me, and this price would reuse the existing ground loop and pumps (both pumps were replaced two years ago) and the existing wiring. He said major sheet metal work would be needed as the newer units have larger heat exchangers to gain in efficiency. His rough estimate included sheet metal and I assume removal of old equipment. This repair man is a owner/operator, often the best we can get and is at the core of the American Private Enterprise high quality and value... not government run/screwed-up beyond what government does already with regulations and taxes. I had some doubts about WF, and still do, but this dealer reestablished my faith in one of their dealer. He is a senior, but may be working for a few more years, he has installed Premiere AT WF HPs in the mid-late 1990s. He said my model is older than (mine is a series A, he installed C and D series units in his early years) - but I felt really optimistic (and justified it turns out) as I learned who had arrived on my cold doorstep to fix my HP. He said my choice of a Synergy 3D was not the best, saying the Synergy is designed to deliver hot water heat and if one uses forced air for heating the System 5 is the best, lower cost, system. This was the reference for the $10K rough estimate. I'll check this out and I may upgrade next fall to a new System 5. I want to get a few hours of use out of my just finished repair. He said as far as my existing unit is concerned it could last for several more years but the high cost or repair and lack of parts support will require it be replaced. Interesting too he recommends the two stage Scroll compressor, not the variable single speed (think I have it right the single speed varies how going to "Stage II" by varying the pumping load, not changing speeds, no stop-start). He is not yet convinced the newer design will hold up, time will tell. Hey, my two speed is still (cross my fingers) switching after 20 years on the job. If someone in Northern Central NJ (Flemington North) needs a WF dealer who is a true expert, let me know. I had mentioned my feeling of a loss when the dealer who installed my unit retired, this new contact knew that dealer well and had high respect for his work/person. I feel like I got an early Christmas Present on this repair, Merry Christmas to all.
At the below post, I have photos of the cheap/simple rig I created to add anti-freeze to my system. In the first year, i had to add a couple gallons. I have since added a bottle of loop conditioner and identified and resolved one leaking fitting. Since then, I have maybe added a pint in 6 months which may have just been some slight pressure flux from gasses being absorbed or thermal variations. Holding fairly steady for some time now. http://www.geoexchange.org/forum/threads/how-to-add-water-to-a-closed-loop.5495/#post-44898
Attached is a photo of one of my two pumps. Note the pressure gauge on supply and return side. I set my static pressure around 16 psi.
Jerry, I am having problems with my WF now - Low Pressure light flashing. The repair tech already replaced 4 pumps - which I don't believe I needed, and now tells me my 12 year old unit needs a compressor. I could use the name of your tech. I am in the Flemington NJ area. Thanks
